re: Mossberg Shockwave for home defense??

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Are there any law enforcement agencies using them?

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I doubt it because they are not common. I rarely see them in stores and they are expensive. Doesn't mean they are not effective though.

It's a 385 grain foster type slug moving 1200 fps.

Here's it blowing thru your standard drywall and 16" of gel.

It's simple physics. Hundreds of thousands of people have been killed across history with a lead round ball moving 1,100 fps.

A 385 grain foster slug would do major damage to a human. More than any 9mm, .40 or .45 round

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The military doesn't use HP rounds either. Does this make them bad for civilians?

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That has nothing to do with the effectiveness of hollow points, and everything to do with an international agreement.

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It’s a 385 grain foster type slug moving 1200 fps.

Here's it blowing thru your standard drywall and 16" of gel.

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This may prove it is a powerful round but in no way proves it would be effective for home defense. While powerful and flying fast, when would you want a slug that can pass through that many barriers without breaking up? You want energy transferred INTO your target, not THROUGH your target. The same argument can be made for FMJ ammo - that bullet can be flying 1500fps but if it doesn’t transfer that energy into the target it makes no sense as a defensive round and will simply pass through.

FWIW the buckshot still sounds effective but I would never use that slug in a home defense scenario, and even less so out of a shotgun with no stock. Plus having a single projectile would defeat the purpose of a stockless shotgun that you supposedly don’t need to aim. Try aiming a slug from the hip accurately.

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That is very much a pistol grip

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While true, I meant more in the way of the AR style pistol grip which shortens the OAL. This looks to be more of a sawed off stock with an end knob which may it feel more balanced versus the AR style with the 18" barrel. I had one twenty+ years ago with the AR style & 18" barrel, while compact, it was front heavy.

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A 385 grain foster slug would do major damage to a human. More than any 9mm, .40 or .45 round

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Since it's America you're free to use whatever you want for personal/home defense. Even on the 'net, you're one of the few I've read who would use a shotgun slug for self defense instead of a 9, 40 or 45..

As TigerOnTheHill said, it appears that your mind is made up. So the following is for those who might be swayed by your posts:

1. It is extremely rare to find any author with self-defense expertise in an NRA publication. This isn't a knock against the NRA (I'm a Life Member) - it's just common knowledge that you don't go there for SD advice.

2. Greg Ellifritz (long time LEO, long time LE firearms instructor) posted an essay in his blog about two weeks ago on which guns one should have in his "arsenal." A shotgun was the 4th or 5th gun he recommends (after handgun, AR15, etc.). Here's his advice on shotguns for SD:


If you are going to buy a shotgun, you will want either a pump action or semi automatic weapon. The pump action is inherently more reliable, but in practice, I’ve found the semi automatic to be more reliable because it reduces the chance for operator error. With pump action weapons, a shooter under stress is likely to “short stroke” the weapon, meaning he doesn’t pull the pump mechanism fully to the rear when pumping it. This will cause a malfunction.

Do not purchase a shotgun that only has a pistol grip (no stock). Recoil is excessive with only pistol grips and accuracy in non-existent beyond 20 feet. If you want a more portable package, purchase a folding stock. You can shoot it with pistol grips at very close range or extend the stock when more accuracy is needed.

As for pump action shotguns, some of the best models to look at are the Remington Model 870 and the Mossberg Model 500. If you are looking for a semi-automatic, the firearms manufactured by Benelli (M1, M2, M4) and Remington (1100 and 11-87) and Mossberg are the best. Most of these weapons are available with shorter barrels (lighter, quicker, and handier for self defense purposes) and alternate long barrels (better accuracy and range) for hunting. If you can afford to do so, buy both barrels.

There are many misconceptions about the best types of ammunition to use in the shotgun. Essentially, you have three choices: birdshot, buckshot, and slugs. Birdshot is the smallest in size and is normally used for hunting. Because of its small size, penetration with these pellets isn’t as deep. For this reason, some people advocate its use for self defense in the home. The people who advocate its use say that it is less likely to penetrate walls and hit other people in the house. The fact that birdshot doesn’t penetrate deeply is well known, and it is true that birdshot is less likely to penetrate through multiple walls. Despite this potential advantage, I don’t recommend it for self defense. The very lack of penetration that some will use to justify its use, is its primary downfall. If your attacker is well muscled or extremely fat, birdshot may not penetrate deeply enough to reach the vital organs. Sometimes birdshot fails to stop birds.

Even though I don’t recommend birdshot for self defense, you should still have a stockpile of some. It is very good for both practice and for hunting. A few hundred rounds of number four or number six birdshot will be useful additions to your preparations.

Buckshot and slugs should be your primary self defense loads. For most people and ranges size 00 Buckshot will work the best. If you anticipate needing to shoot through intermediate obstacles or at long range, use slugs (single projectiles). Both buckshot and slugs recoil more than birdshot. There are “low recoil” cartridges available, but they may not work in all semi-automatic shotguns.