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How many here are seriously interested in the new 6.8 Western?
Posted on 1/24/21 at 8:14 am
Posted on 1/24/21 at 8:14 am
I know there are a couple of threads about it but was interested to see who's seriously interested in getting one? And why is the twist rate on the barrel so much faster on it? What would happen if they did the same with some already existing calibers?
Posted on 1/24/21 at 8:16 am to LSUlefty
Not I although I would have nothing against the caliber at all
Just not needed.
My next caliber will likely be a .300 prc or .300 Norma.
Just not needed.
My next caliber will likely be a .300 prc or .300 Norma.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 8:20 am to LSUlefty
We can’t even get ammo for mainstays like .308 or .300 win mag, why on earth would I buy another new caliber right now.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 8:42 am to 10MTNTiger
6.8 ammo is being produced at the same rate as the other calibers. It'll soon be on shelves when nothing else is because nobody will have a rifle for it.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 8:49 am to Oxforder
quote:
6.8 ammo is being produced at the same rate as the other calibers
bullshite,
Posted on 1/24/21 at 8:54 am to LSUlefty
quote:
why is the twist rate on the barrel so much faster on it
The fast twist rate is the whole point of the new caliber. It's pretty much the 270 WSM made to shoot longer, heavier bullets and needs the faster twist to stabilize them.
Nothing wrong with the new caliber, but I'm not interested at all. It's a niche caliber that's seems very similar to the 7mm Rem mag, but with just a bit less recoil.
The original 270 Winchester does everything I need, plus some.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 9:13 am to LSUlefty
quote:
And why is the twist rate on the barrel so much faster on it?
As has already been mentioned, the twist rate is need to stabilize heavy bullets. To make a bullet heavier they have to make it longer. There are several reasons to make bullets heavier, the two main ones are:
Penetration
Higher ballistic coefficient (which basically helps with wind deflection). Wind normally isn’t an issue unless you are shooting past 250-300yds.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 9:21 am to bbvdd
So why are all barrels in other calibers have 1:10 or 1:11?
Posted on 1/24/21 at 9:52 am to Oxforder
quote:
6.8 ammo is being produced at the same rate as the other calibers.
Not a chance
Posted on 1/24/21 at 9:54 am to LSUlefty
Fast twist barrels are an old idea, but it's coming back around again.
For real world hunting, extremely long, heavy bullets aren't necessary. When gun makers developed a new caliber, they used a good twist rate for main bullet weights hunters would need. It's the crossover from long range target shooting to long range hunting making so many interested in the really long, extremely high BC bullets that need the fast twist.
For real world hunting, extremely long, heavy bullets aren't necessary. When gun makers developed a new caliber, they used a good twist rate for main bullet weights hunters would need. It's the crossover from long range target shooting to long range hunting making so many interested in the really long, extremely high BC bullets that need the fast twist.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 9:57 am to LSUlefty
I’d consider it if I was purchasing a new rifle.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 10:14 am to LSUlefty
quote:
So why are all barrels in other calibers have 1:10 or 1:11?
Calibers or cartridges?
In other cartridges like the .270 win the heaviest bullets you can find (production) is what 150gr? Faster twist isn’t needed to stabilize that.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 10:24 am to LSUlefty
quote:
So why are all barrels in other calibers have 1:10 or 1:11?
More than likely those were designed years ago using the bullets that were available at the time. Bullet development and understanding of ballistics leads to improvements. Kind of like the reason we don't all drive model t Ford's anymore.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 1:47 pm to texag7
All I know is if a machine puts out 1 rd/sec, out of a dozen one is loading 6.8, and no two machines are loading the same caliber, it's being loaded at the same rate. That only applies to one manufacturer, though. And its likely that this cartridge will not be off the machine for many many months. The same thing happened with the last new caliber launch
Posted on 1/24/21 at 2:09 pm to LSUlefty
if I had a 270 WSM and rebarreled it with a faster twist and more jump to the lands, would I get the same results as the 6.8 Western? If the answer is YES, then am I basically increasing the accuracy & downrange energy of longer 270 WSM shots? If that answer is yes, this just seems like a really niche caliber. To put it another way, the 270 WSM wasn't broken, but they fixed it anyway. Sounds like a solution in search of a problem.
I'm sure diehard reloaders would like to play with it, but with current power and primer shortages, I dont think anyone's "playing" for some time to come.
I'm sure diehard reloaders would like to play with it, but with current power and primer shortages, I dont think anyone's "playing" for some time to come.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 2:31 pm to Oxforder
quote:
6.8 ammo is being produced at the same rate as the other calibers. It'll soon be on shelves when nothing else is because nobody will have a rifle for it.
Yeah I’ll call bullshite on this. Why would a business retool and recalibrate to produce some new round “at the same rate” when they cant make their product fast enough at all as it is.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 2:38 pm to 10MTNTiger
If you're trying to push a new caliber
Posted on 1/24/21 at 4:39 pm to LSUlefty
Many, many years ago, before there were Spitzer (pointed) bullets you needed a really long bullet to have anything resembling a decent BC and longer range capability. To stabilize longer bullets you need a "Fast twist". Fast is relative, the smaller the bore the faster the twist needs to be. The three most common military calibers were .308, 7mm and 6.5mm and they all had fast (10" for 30 cal, 9" for 7mm and 8" for 6.5) twists to stabilize long bullets. The soldiers that handled these military rifles often used them for hunting when they got back home and the longer heavier bullets worked significantly better on game.
Decades passed, Spitzer bullets are invented, bullets are made better (still not great, but better) and optics start appearing on firearms. With optics, skilled rifle shots can take advtange of point blank aiming out to longer distances (2-300yds). Because bullets are made a little better, and you have moderate BC's with shorter lighter bullets, you don't need the real long heavy bullets anymore. Faster, flatter shooting bullets like the 130grn in the 270Win become the new favorites to extend maximum point blank range. Max point blank range is really important because estimating range is very difficult w/o training, mildot reticles and even then it's iffy particularly on game that can vary tremendously in size.
Bullets are better, but still not great and the smaller a bullet is the harder it is to make precisely. Overstabilizing these imprecise bullets leads to accuracy problems, so the "new" chamberings have the min twist necessary to stabilize the heaviest bullet commonly shot in them. Things stayed like this w/ moderate incremental improvements until the invention of laser range finders.
Now with laser range finders, range estimation is easy. With precise laser range finders, scopes that will dial properly and accurate ballistic calculators "flat shooting" doesn't really mean much. If you know how and have the equipment anybody can make easy hits on target out to 600yds or so - as long as the wind ain't blowing! And the wind is always blowing out west where longer shots are more common.
Now things come full circle, rifles w/ fast twist rates and long high BC bullets have the most resistance to wind. So, the 10" twist 30 cals, 9" twist 7mm's and 8" twist 6.5's again are back in vogue. Bullet technology has improved so much there really is no downside to fast twist. If you shoot 120grn flat based bullets in your 6.5mm CM they will still be accurate.
People have been building fast twist rifles for years to take advantage of the bullets available. Up until recently there weren't a lot of bullets available in chamberings like the 270win that could utilize the faster twist. That's changed. There are real long, high BC bullets available for .277 (270), 25's, 6mm, 22's etc. and people are now building rifles w/ fast twist barrels to take advantage of these bullets.
The 6.5 Creedmoor was so popular because the factory specs had it being built the way it needed to be to be effective out of the box with no modifications. The success of the 6.5CM has manufactures attempting to cash in on that success formula, the 6.8 Western just makes the 270wsm what it should be, out of the box. There are no negatives for someone shooting at a whitetail at 60 yds in the woods, but there are a lot of positives if he decides he wants to go elk or mule deer hunting with that rifle and needs to take 300yd+ shot in high wind conditions that are very common.
Decades passed, Spitzer bullets are invented, bullets are made better (still not great, but better) and optics start appearing on firearms. With optics, skilled rifle shots can take advtange of point blank aiming out to longer distances (2-300yds). Because bullets are made a little better, and you have moderate BC's with shorter lighter bullets, you don't need the real long heavy bullets anymore. Faster, flatter shooting bullets like the 130grn in the 270Win become the new favorites to extend maximum point blank range. Max point blank range is really important because estimating range is very difficult w/o training, mildot reticles and even then it's iffy particularly on game that can vary tremendously in size.
Bullets are better, but still not great and the smaller a bullet is the harder it is to make precisely. Overstabilizing these imprecise bullets leads to accuracy problems, so the "new" chamberings have the min twist necessary to stabilize the heaviest bullet commonly shot in them. Things stayed like this w/ moderate incremental improvements until the invention of laser range finders.
Now with laser range finders, range estimation is easy. With precise laser range finders, scopes that will dial properly and accurate ballistic calculators "flat shooting" doesn't really mean much. If you know how and have the equipment anybody can make easy hits on target out to 600yds or so - as long as the wind ain't blowing! And the wind is always blowing out west where longer shots are more common.
Now things come full circle, rifles w/ fast twist rates and long high BC bullets have the most resistance to wind. So, the 10" twist 30 cals, 9" twist 7mm's and 8" twist 6.5's again are back in vogue. Bullet technology has improved so much there really is no downside to fast twist. If you shoot 120grn flat based bullets in your 6.5mm CM they will still be accurate.
People have been building fast twist rifles for years to take advantage of the bullets available. Up until recently there weren't a lot of bullets available in chamberings like the 270win that could utilize the faster twist. That's changed. There are real long, high BC bullets available for .277 (270), 25's, 6mm, 22's etc. and people are now building rifles w/ fast twist barrels to take advantage of these bullets.
The 6.5 Creedmoor was so popular because the factory specs had it being built the way it needed to be to be effective out of the box with no modifications. The success of the 6.5CM has manufactures attempting to cash in on that success formula, the 6.8 Western just makes the 270wsm what it should be, out of the box. There are no negatives for someone shooting at a whitetail at 60 yds in the woods, but there are a lot of positives if he decides he wants to go elk or mule deer hunting with that rifle and needs to take 300yd+ shot in high wind conditions that are very common.
Posted on 1/24/21 at 4:50 pm to upgrade
quote:
The original 270 Winchester does everything I need, plus some.
At our farm, we shoot whitetail deer and hogs. And a 270 is all you need. From kids, to women, to the old men.
I have been trying for 20 years to get everyone who hunts with us exclusively to switch to 270. That way, there's always bullets around. No one ever is out of bullets.
But every year someone shows up and doesn't have bullets for their 308. Or, I let someone borrow my orange vest, and I go to load my gun and I've got a handful of 243 in the pocket. Or we get to the woods and my nephew is like: "Oh, do you have an 30-06 in your truck???"
Drives me freaking bananas.
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