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Cons of CRP or WRP type programs?

Posted on 8/22/20 at 11:55 pm
Posted by Dylan
Bayou Barbary
Member since May 2009
3406 posts
Posted on 8/22/20 at 11:55 pm
I was looking at a piece of land in the Port Gibson area that had been cut last year. It’s flat to gentle rolling hills, great roads throughout, isn’t grown up out of control yet, so I figured it might be a good candidate for a 15 year CRP program. I know nothing about the CRP program besides you get a annual payment, and once the trees are planted you can’t cut or manipulate them.

So what else should I know about thr programs? Cons? How much income could you realistically expect from say allowing 100 acres to be planted? After the contract is up are you free to cut or do whatever you want? Can you have a camp on a property enrolled in CRP? What do they usually plant?
Posted by FelicianaTigerfan
Comanche County
Member since Aug 2009
26059 posts
Posted on 8/23/20 at 12:29 am to
My very uneducated opinion is based off of folks much older and wiser than me and they all agree. Don’t get involved with the govt and give them an interest in your land.

I may be way wrong and hope you can get the most of it but I’ve heard that since I was a kid when it seemed the new wore off and everyone was mad they agreed to it.
Posted by White Bear
Yonnygo
Member since Jul 2014
13804 posts
Posted on 8/23/20 at 8:05 am to
I’m not sure if timberland qualifies for CRP but I might be wrong.

Downsides are you’re giving up some control for gov cheese. But the gov is elbow deep in anything wetland, ag land, etc. any fkn way.
This post was edited on 8/23/20 at 8:07 am
Posted by plazadweller
South Georgia
Member since Jul 2011
11441 posts
Posted on 8/23/20 at 8:26 am to
Most of the CRP around me is planted pines. Our neighbor is trying to sell 800 acres most of which is CRP. I’m not sure what you’re limited in doing but having the government tell me what I can do or not do is an easy no.
Posted by Dylan
Bayou Barbary
Member since May 2009
3406 posts
Posted on 8/23/20 at 9:42 am to
The property looks like pasture that’s been let go for a year at this point. I just feel like if you lay your plots out how you want them before hand, then it wouldn’t be a problem not being able to manipulate “their” trees. If they planted pines it seems like it would be a no brainer being after 15 years when the contract is up there’s some timber value there.
Posted by MississippiTiger
Member since May 2004
616 posts
Posted on 8/23/20 at 9:56 am to
I farm and sell real estate, so I am somewhat familiar with both programs. I wouldn’t think WRP would be an option in the hills. It is a wetlands program. WRP has actually become WRE now. It is very hard to qualify for, and pays a one time payment up front. The con is you can never take the land out of trees, and put the land back into agriculture. You can cut the trees eventually, but it must be approved through NRCS.

CRP is usually a 15 year contract and is administered through FSA. At the end of contract you could remove all the trees if you wanted. It is much more flexible. You can have up to ten percent food plots in your contract. It is possible to even get duck impoundments put into CRP contracts. It is a yearly rental rate. The rental rate varies by county. Hill ground will get way less rent than agriculture land. Due to the fact it is based on county rent per acre and soil type. In the MS South Delta rent is typically $90-$120. Also in the Delta you get oaks instead of pines planted.

Another program is CSP (Conservation Steward Program). It is a five year contract that can pay up to $80k depending on property and practices implemented. Basically it pays for different practices such as fire lanes, timber management, or even food plots for butterflies. There are literally hundreds of different practices that can be adopted and used. Hope this was helpful.
Posted by No Colors
Sandbar
Member since Sep 2010
10332 posts
Posted on 8/23/20 at 9:59 am to
quote:

so I figured it might be a good candidate for a 15 year CRP program

It is only eligible for CRP if it was designated FSA crop land as of December 24th, 1984. Land that was in timber on this date does not qualify. Pasture does not qualify. Only land that was engaged in the production of agricultural commodities (as traded on the CBOT) through the "annual tilling of the soil."

Also, all counties are capped at 25% of the farm land as of that date can be enrolled at any one time. To get new land in, other land has to come out. Claiborne County MS stays at the cap. So there is a waiting list.
quote:

once the trees are planted you can’t cut or manipulate them.

Not true at all. You can do everything you normally do with the trees. Thin them, burn under them, spray for competition, clear cut when they're ready, etc. CRP doesn't really keep you from normal timber management practices
quote:

Cons?

Not many
quote:

How much income could you realistically expect from say allowing 100 acres to be planted?

$35-65 per acre. It is a function of the average rental rate of farm land in that county.
quote:

After the contract is up are you free to cut or do whatever you want?

Yep
quote:

Can you have a camp on a property enrolled in CRP?

Nope
quote:

What do they usually plant?

If it's HEL (Highly Erodable Land by FSA definition) then they plant pine.

If it's Farmed Wetlands then they plant bottomland hardwood species.
Posted by Ron Cheramie
The Cajun Hedgehog
Member since Aug 2016
5133 posts
Posted on 8/23/20 at 10:25 am to
Back in the day many dang good deer and duck properties were purchased by using WRP funds. Can’t do it now, but I know of several
Posted by Cowboyfan89
Member since Sep 2015
12706 posts
Posted on 8/23/20 at 1:06 pm to
quote:

MississippiTiger

Really good summary.

And like someone else said, if it wasn't cropland, you aren't getting it into CRP anyway. And it's an extremely difficult program to qualify for if there isn't a general sign up going on.

WRE is strictly for wetlands, and something that was forestland and clearcut my not qualify anyway. It's not just about whether you can plant trees on it, but whether there is hydrologic restoration necessary.

Posted by Outdoorreb
Member since Oct 2019
2510 posts
Posted on 8/23/20 at 1:53 pm to
What MississippiTiger and No Colors said are pretty much all you need to know. I didn’t know you could thin trees while it is still in contract. I thought you had to wait until it was out and do it before it is re-upped (if eligible).

Just stay away from Land Easements. They might sound good in the beginning, but then you have to get their approval for damn near everything.
Posted by White Bear
Yonnygo
Member since Jul 2014
13804 posts
Posted on 8/23/20 at 7:51 pm to
quote:

Can’t do it now,
Sure you can. Two yrs of prior ownership Required for WRE in La. you tote the note for two then apply. The easement values aren’t as lucrative as they once were but are still around 75% of appraised/FM value as determined by NRCS. GUV CHEESE, BAW.

NRCS also has a WRE program for existing wetland forests now. Gov on the grow as usual.
This post was edited on 8/23/20 at 7:52 pm
Posted by BLM
ATL
Member since Oct 2011
746 posts
Posted on 8/23/20 at 11:08 pm to
I believe they also do 2 types of WRP Easements...one is in perpetuity and other is 30 yr.
Posted by White Bear
Yonnygo
Member since Jul 2014
13804 posts
Posted on 8/24/20 at 8:12 am to
quote:

I believe they also do 2 types of WRP Easements...one is in perpetuity and other is 30 yr.
Yes.
Posted by Huntinguy
Member since Mar 2011
1752 posts
Posted on 8/24/20 at 9:57 am to
The 30 year isn't very common at all.
Posted by Dylan
Bayou Barbary
Member since May 2009
3406 posts
Posted on 8/25/20 at 12:34 am to
Thanks for all the reply’s! I’m guessing it won’t qualify for CRP from what y’all tell me.
Posted by LSUCouyon
ONTHELAKEATDELHI, La.
Member since Oct 2006
11329 posts
Posted on 8/25/20 at 7:58 am to
Most of the above is true except for the camp thing. If you go into a CRP contract, you can hold out as much land as you want for most purposes, including a camp.
Even if the land is enrolled, you could “buy out” a camp spot by paying the government back for what was paid on those acres to the date you buy out.
There are actually farmers buying CRP ground, buying out the contract and converting back to farmland. Expensive but it’s being done.
Posted by Cowboyfan89
Member since Sep 2015
12706 posts
Posted on 8/25/20 at 8:20 pm to
quote:

NRCS also has a WRE program for existing wetland forests now. Gov on the grow as usual.

The likelihood of getting a property like this in isn't good though. The more restoration work required, the better it ranks typically.
quote:

Sure you can. Two yrs of prior ownership Required for WRE in La. you tote the note for two then apply.

Even this isn't always the case. There are special circumstances where the 2 year waiting period can be waived.
Posted by Sparetime
Lookin down at La
Member since Sep 2014
874 posts
Posted on 8/25/20 at 10:49 pm to
Pasture ground most definitely qualifies for CRP because there is no way they can prove a "normal agriculture practice" was not applied in the last 35 years. If it's pasture in SW MS it had a plow on it.

Contact NRCS and see if any eligible acres are available, if so give them the specs. They get paid for doing it.

Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
20396 posts
Posted on 8/26/20 at 7:10 am to
I’m guessing OP isn’t interested in farming it? The obvious negative to CRP is the locked in 15 year period. I think a lot of people hate it because it was fine for 5-10 years then some crop they could be growing shoots up in price and they could make 2-3 times the amount by farming the land but can’t.
Posted by Cowboyfan89
Member since Sep 2015
12706 posts
Posted on 8/26/20 at 4:43 pm to
quote:

Pasture ground most definitely qualifies for CRP because there is no way they can prove a "normal agriculture practice" was not applied in the last 35 years. If it's pasture in SW MS it had a plow on it.

It potentially qualifies for CRP Grassland, but that program is specifically for maintaining land as grassland. Has to be "marginal" pasture land for continuous sign up (one of the sign ups which trees are planted under).
quote:

Contact NRCS

No, contact FSA. NRCS is the technical provider on CRP; FSA manages the program.
quote:

They get paid for doing it.

Paid for doing what? They get paid to do alot of things.
This post was edited on 8/26/20 at 4:44 pm
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