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Started By
Message
re: Youth travel ball has to be the dumbest waste of time and money.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:17 pm to Thib-a-doe Tiger
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:17 pm to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
So you have people who can't teach their children pre-HS academics to get better than C's? Sounds like some of that private coaching $$$ would be better spent with a tutor, no?
imo...i dont think anything more than 1 B is acceptable...but im not that kids parents and not everyone is as demanding or puts the emphasis on academics that I do.
not my place to tell others what to spend their money on.
1
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:18 pm to Earnest_P
quote:
The elite high schoolers would be elite either way.
You don’t become ‘elite’ by just showing up. That is an absolutely horrible way to look at it
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:19 pm to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:I love rec ball. And the biggest problem is development. The best of the best players going to travel ball is not the problem. That actually helps the league. The real problem is all the good to decently good players leave too...that is the problem. If your kid stays in rec, he literally must roll the ball to 10 year olds that cant catch, hit, throw or run. The rec coach is forced to spend the entirety of practice trying to get people to turn the glove properly. The few better players on the team get little help. Then these kids go play school ball or other ball and see how far behind they actually are becoming...then they go too.
That's my point. We are doing it because the rec league here is historically terrible
It is a cycle, and asking a kid or parent to sacrifice for the good of the league is a big ask.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:20 pm to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
That's my point. We are doing it because the rec league here is historically terrible. I'm not thrilled about it and made it known that I won't be doing any fundraising. Let me know how much I have to pay, let the kids have fun and learn, and lets move on
A) rec league is like that across the board and thats is my point.
B) 100% agree about the fundraising, i dont do the fundraising really unless its just sellign something like plate lunches or washing detergent etc. and even with that, im not doing anything more than posting on facebook and im not organizing.
quote:
We didn't even have tryouts, it's basically his friend group from school
see i think tryouts should happen every year. I used to not, but i feel like kids putting in more work should be rewarded for that work. I think you should have to earn a spot on the team, should have to earn playing time each tournament once the competitive season starts.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:25 pm to lsu777
quote:Meh, you got a guy that stands out for two years and shits the bed in the tryout? Is that guy getting cut? Hell no, not in any way is that stud in jeopardy. No different than Trout having a terrible spring training. And if you arent going to have tryouts matter for all, you just go with your gut, put your best team together that fits politically, personality wise, family wise and go with it. At 13 you would have a whole lot of decent players get cut in favor of pitchers....and not many are going to travel to Houston or Dallas to watch their kid sit and pitch 2 innings on Sunday.....
see i think tryouts should happen every year. I used to not, but i feel like kids putting in more work should be rewarded for that work. I think you should have to earn a spot on the team, should have to earn playing time each tournament once the competitive season starts.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:27 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
I love rec ball. And the biggest problem is development. The best of the best players going to travel ball is not the problem. That actually helps the league.
agreed and i have made this arguement before
quote:
he real problem is all the good to decently good players leave too...that is the problem.
i actually think this is a good thing too.
quote:
If your kid stays in rec, he literally must roll the ball to 10 year olds that cant catch, hit, throw or run. The rec coach is forced to spend the entirety of practice trying to get people to turn the glove properly. The few better players on the team get little help. Then these kids go play school ball or other ball and see how far behind they actually are becoming...then they go too.
i think all of the better players leaving actually helps those that need the most development. Rec gives them a place to play competitively and allows them to get much more playing time and practice time. If a kid is serious it allows them to put in work outside of practice and to use the games to develop. It allows kids to play positions they would never get to if the travel players were in the league, elite or not. It also allows them to hit against competition that is more in line with them.
then after 12 year old season, they can go be on a travel team if they choose and are good enough.
i personally think the current model is the best way. as kids develop skill wise.....they leave little league to go play in a more competitive environment allowing the less skilled a chance to develop their skills. the cycle repeats and the better little league players move to AA, the better AA move to AAA teams, AAA to major teams. the ones who dont keep working or who dont progress get cut and have to move down a level. They either decide to take it as a wake up call or they pout and just keep doing the same thing.
IMO the current model is the best model. It allows players of all skill levels to play against similar competition.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:30 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
Meh, you got a guy that stands out for two years and shits the bed in the tryout? Is that guy getting cut? Hell no, not in any way is that stud in jeopardy.
well no. but if a kid is a fringe player all season and its clear he doesnt put in nearly the work the other kids do....well then dont be surprised when he is cut.
quote:
you just go with your gut, put your best team together that fits politically, personality wise, family wise and go with it
oh i agree 100%. parents matter and you should get the best kids but they also have to fit into the org and its culture.
quote:
At 13 you would have a whole lot of decent players get cut in favor of pitchers....and not many are going to travel to Houston or Dallas to watch their kid sit and pitch 2 innings on Sunday.....
yea hell to the no. I would but i would be annoyed and would have to evaluate if that is the best team for my kid to develop. Maybe it is, maybe it isnt.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:34 pm to lsu777
quote:If it were the best model we wouldnt see Dominicans and such pouring into the show.
IMO the current model is the best model. It allows players of all skill levels to play against similar competition.
Some rec ball is so bad you just cant develop, you go all year and may see five pitches to hit. You pitch and you cant get an out behind you. You hit a double and stay at first because your coach is trying to talk the guy in front of you to leave second as he wont pay attention. It is terrible.
Nothing of significance can be taught because you have 10 year old AA teams going out and scoring 11 on 4 hits in some OTC or 2D deal. All with a terrible boom box and lunatics in the stands.
Aside from the small towns that dont have enough for a league, the majority of those kids should be in rec. They can get there advanced stuff in All Stars and play with those All Stars in the fall if they choose.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:34 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
If your kid stays in rec, he literally must roll the ball to 10 year olds that cant catch, hit, throw or run
My neighbor has his kid playing Rec league this season and he told me in their last game the coach had the right fielder to run the ball to 2nd bc he kept throwing the ball over the right field foul fence line.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:36 pm to midcitycid
quote:The league ball leagues are loaded with travel ball players so that the travel teams have access to the league facilities. Basically travel ball can use the leagues fields (w/lights) and pitching/batting cages to work out their travel ball players.
it has put a huge dent in municipal recreation leagues. Pontiff struggles with getting kids in to play and dads to coach.
Of course the travel ball players are the best and when league All-Star selection rolls around, the travel ball players opt out of league all-stars because they are on the road playing and don't have time to represent their league for all-star games.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:37 pm to lsu777
quote:
IMO the current model is the best model
Having 7 year olds traveling all over the place to play shitty baseball (because they're 7) and a place like Lake Charles having 2 dozen travel teams (so every kid is on a team, just like if they would just play Rec) is undeniably not the best model.
The best model is what it was 15-20 years ago. Every kid in town plays Rec, the best players make all stars and play the rest of the summer and for a year or two before high school start playing some local travel.
8-12, the best kids play about 30 games a year including all stars then year 13 and 14 step up the competition with some in state travel ball playing 10 or so tournaments a year. Then on to high school where the high school team plays 8 or so local summer games outside of season.
Of course there will still be some ridiculously talented kids that will do the national showcase circuit just like they did then, but that's going to be maybe a kid or two every year in a state like Louisiana and some years none because these are sure fire pro players.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:38 pm to lsu777
quote:Most coaches have no idea if a kid is working hard away from practice or not, I dont tell our coach that my kid had a lesson, or worked out, or went to speed training, or hit off the tee for a couple days. I doubt he would want to know, and I am just not that worried about it.
well no. but if a kid is a fringe player all season and its clear he doesnt put in nearly the work the other kids do....well then dont be surprised when he is cut.
quote:So you are back to this, are you an elite team trying to win, or are you a pretty good majors team trying to develop? You cant do both. People argue it, but you cant. Towns wiht 40-50k in em may have three or four game changers in the whole town. Then they have about 20 or so really good age group players. It isnt like they can pick from 100 to really compete. So you got with your best guess and move on.
yea hell to the no. I would but i would be annoyed and would have to evaluate if that is the best team for my kid to develop. Maybe it is, maybe it isnt.
This post was edited on 5/2/22 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:39 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
If it were the best model we wouldnt see Dominicans and such pouring into the show.
Dominicans play travel ball on steroids. They attend MLB player development facilities and train for hours daily. Many live at these facilities. The Dominicans you see in the MLB currently all went this route.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:42 pm to Stevo
quote:Of course you do. You dont have Dominicans that are not sure if they are right handed or left handed joining travel teams. What the Dominicans are doing has nothing in common with our modern tournament ball as you see it.
They attend MLB player development facilities and train for hours daily. Many live at these facilities. The Dominicans you see in the MLB currently all went this route.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:44 pm to LSUBogeyMan
quote:
My neighbor has his kid playing Rec league this season and he told me in their last game the coach had the right fielder to run the ball to 2nd bc he kept throwing the ball over the right field foul fence line.
impressed the rec kid could even throw it in any direction that far.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:48 pm to lsu777
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:49 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
What the Dominicans are doing has nothing in common with our modern tournament ball as you see it.
Agree, and Tournament Ball is a more accurate description than Travel Ball as far as the format of how most youths play baseball today. There are still plenty of leagues for league play, and plenty of classifications based on skill level for tournaments.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:52 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Having 7 year olds traveling all over the place to play shitty baseball (because they're 7) and a place like Lake Charles having 2 dozen travel teams (so every kid is on a team, just like if they would just play Rec) is undeniably not the best model.
there are maybe 6 per age group max, some less
quote:
The best model is what it was 15-20 years ago. Every kid in town plays Rec, the best players make all stars and play the rest of the summer and for a year or two before high school start playing some local travel.
I disagree for teh reasons i said. I coach rec and most of those kids would never get a chance to play infield and would not play nearly as much.
as far as the travel....how many times do i have to explain, there is hardly any travel in louisiana unless you want to, especially 12 and under.
there are tournaments in LC, Laffy, Br, Nola area, Shreveport/Monroe, beaumont etc almost every weeekend.
IF YOU ARE TRAVELING MORE THAN AN HOUR FOR A TOURNAMENT, ITS IS OUT OF CHOICE!!
as far as 7 & 8 year olds...this is where the rec and travel model are best imo. allows plenty for the rec kids to be ready for 9u travel because they get way more playing time then they would other wise.
quote:
8-12, the best kids play about 30 games a year including all stars then year 13 and 14 step up the competition with some in state travel ball playing 10 or so tournaments a year. Then on to high school where the high school team plays 8 or so local summer games outside of season.
huh? most little leagues play less than 20 max. SLC where i am is one of the bigger leagues in the whole state. Its 12-16 regular season games plus 2-3 playoff games. for anything above tball is pretty much 12 regular season and 4 playoff games max. Then its the regional all stars and then state. so its 24 or so games max.
and 30 games is not enough imo to develop. i think 50-60 spread out like i described a page back is about right imo.
i do agree that 100+ games is insane. hell even 75 plus is pushing it and too much imo. 30 is not nearly enough. There is a line there where you need to play more to develop but too much leads to over use.
quote:
Of course there will still be some ridiculously talented kids that will do the national showcase circuit just like they did then, but that's going to be maybe a kid or two every year in a state like Louisiana and some years none because these are sure fire pro players.
not gonna get into the showcase stuff. that should be based on the HS coach and Parent.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:55 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Having 7 year olds traveling all over the place to play shitty baseball
Comments like this are just plain ignorant.
There are a lot of teams out there with kids that are excelling very well and play incredible baseball being a 7 and 8 year old.
Maybe some play too much ball. That's a different issue. But to take away their due of how well they learn and play the game because of blanket ignorance like yourself is simply short sighted.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 1:55 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
Most coaches have no idea if a kid is working hard away from practice or not, I dont tell our coach that my kid had a lesson, or worked out, or went to speed training, or hit off the tee for a couple days. I doubt he would want to know, and I am just not that worried about it.
its pretty obvious who is working hard and who isnt.
quote:
So you are back to this, are you an elite team trying to win, or are you a pretty good majors team trying to develop? You cant do both. People argue it, but you cant. Towns wiht 40-50k in em may have three or four game changers in the whole town. Then they have about 20 or so really good age group players. It isnt like they can pick from 100 to really compete. So you got with your best guess and move on.
i laid out the schedule that i beleive in above. its the driveline model. i dont beleive any 9u or hell any pre hs game should be so consequential that we should sacrifice development. but there is also a time in the season where it comes time to be as competitive as possible.
i laid it out above and if you have done any research on drivelines model you would prolly agree.
there is a time to be competitive but i dont agree with kids being labeled right fielders and only playing right field because thats what they played on a 8u travel team.
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