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Started By
Message
re: Wisconsin police release deadly shooting of police and paramedics trying to help a man
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:42 am to Ray Corona
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:42 am to Ray Corona
quote:
You not being able to control yourself from using drugs or alcohol isn't a 'disease'. Ebola is a disease. HIV/AIDS is a disease. Hepatitis A is a disease.
You not being able to have the self control to use a substance isn't a 'disease'. It is poor choices and poor personal responsibility. The 'disease' excuse is just to make you feel better about yourslef. It is a lie.
But it is more akin to a mental disorder, the comparison to cancer, that kind of thing is problematic.
Think of it compared to depression - for someone without depression, it is hard to conceptualize where their head is - its hard to understand why the have such a hard problem coping with daily life.
Kind of the same thing with someone struggling with addiction, its hard to figure out why the keep wanting to ingest something that has caused so many problems in their life.
1
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:43 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:and you are right. This is the reason these "boards" have done so. I just wish people accepted this and didn't die on the branch of "OMG it is a disease whether you like it or not"
but calling it a disease allows for a greater discussion, path to treatment IMO
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:45 am to Ed Osteen
quote:
Being a daily drinker wasn’t some overnight decision, it was an extremely slow progression.
Bingo.
Compulsive behavior led to daily drinking which ended in alcoholism. It takes incredible strength to quit and stay sober.
I will say I thought I would be the one person who could drink and skirt the line of addiction, and found out I was wrong.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:45 am to Ray Corona
quote:
You not being able to have the self control to use a substance isn't a 'disease'. It is poor choices and poor personal responsibility. The 'disease' excuse is just to make you feel better about yourslef. It is a lie.
quote:
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
Describes oh so many of you oh so well.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:46 am to Ed Osteen
Darwins theory essentially states that characteristics and abilities that make you stronger and more able to survive in this world (mental, physical, etc.) will lead to you outlasting those without those same characteristics and abilities....if your an addict and OD which results in your death....IMHO that means you are a weaker individual who could not overcome the cravings for a drug that you know is lethal....hence natural selection by "weeding out" if you will, those that cannot make decisions to keep themselves alive.
I hope your recovery goes well and stays on track
I hope your recovery goes well and stays on track
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:46 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:I’ve got to imagine that it also empowers people to keep doing drugs because now your personal responsibility has been removed from the situation.
Gives people greater freedom to admit their struggles / disease / whatever you want to call it and seek a path to recovery. At least IMO
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:46 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
Think of it compared to depression - for someone without depression
Its called a 'disease' by the medical/professional community to not make these people feel worse than they already do. What sounds better? Me saying you have a 'disease' or me telling you that you are a loser with no self control and no self respect?
I totally understand why the 'disease' term is used because if we were to call a spade a spade these people would be offing themselves left and right if they heard the truth not some roses and tulips 'disease' crutch.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:46 am to ReauxlTide222
quote:
hear you on all of that.
Question..
Odds tell me that some folks don’t have the disease and just like drugs so much that they do them for a long time and then die(or don’t die, I guess). These folks just do shite tons of drugs and love them.
If they said they have the disease would they be wrong? Is it possible to be born without the disease and develop it later(without doing drugs)?
Some drugs themselves are addicting. So non disease carrying people can become addicted to them, no? So it’s not just about genetics?
No it isn't just about genetics, people can certainly develop that kind of thing. As I said earlier, it can take people up to two years or so for their brain to fully re-wire itself in terms of its chemical balance.
I think those that just use a lot for a long time are probably good to go after that re-=wiring period, and just need to be careful not to fall in the same habits while those who were more genetically pre-disposed likely need to maintain more of an sober lifestyle and active be concerned with potential relapse.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:47 am to RogerTheShrubber
Here for you bro
Funny thing I used to mock people with addictions and called them weak. A dozen detox’s and a few in patient rehabs, look at me now
Funny thing I used to mock people with addictions and called them weak. A dozen detox’s and a few in patient rehabs, look at me now
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:48 am to Ray Corona
quote:
totally understand why the 'disease
Drinking is not a disease
Alcohol abuse isn't a disease
Physical addiction is a disease just as diabetes is a disease.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:49 am to ReauxlTide222
quote:
I’ve got to imagine that it also empowers people to keep doing drugs because now your personal responsibility has been removed from the situation.
I mean I see what you are saying, but those are the ones who would find ANY excuse to just keep doing drugs. I highly doubt the number of people who aren't trying to beat addiction because it is called a "disease" is of any statistical significance.
People who want to fight this will try their best to beat it and those who don't will continue on their path regardless of it is defined as a disease or not.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:49 am to windshieldman
quote:
thought this could have been a good thread with good discussions about what medics and police deal with regarding these situations, and how awful it is seeing people overdosed like that. But damn, y’all been butchering the shite out of this thread
Nothing’s stopping you from shifting the conversation, welcome to tigerdroppings
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:50 am to Ray Corona
quote:
I totally understand why the 'disease' term is used because if we were to call a spade a spade these people would be offing themselves left and right if they heard the truth not some roses and tulips 'disease' crutch.
Oh just ask them, they've heard blowhards like you all their lives.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:51 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Drinking is not a disease
Alcohol abuse isn't a disease
Physical addiction is a disease just as diabetes is a disease.
Agree. The 'disease' excuse is just a way to coddle these fragile people with no self control and no self respect. It's a joke.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:51 am to Ed Osteen
quote:
Nothing’s stopping you from shifting the conversation, welcome to tigerdroppings
There’s been several attempts already including people asking y’all to start a new thread. Carry on, I was just making an observation
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:52 am to Sneaky__Sally
quote:
but calling it a disease allows for a greater discussion, path to treatment IMO. A lot of people today hide their problems / struggles even more so than those struggling with depression and that kind of thing.
Gives people greater freedom to admit their struggles / disease / whatever you want to call it and seek a path to recovery. At least IMO
I don’t know the right answer, and I grant the validity of that thought process.
My experience in life has taught me that the stories people tell themselves trump almost everything else when it comes to their behavior.
If a doctor tells you that you have a disease, and implies or lets you infer that your behavior is therefore not your fault, I think that makes it less likely that the behavior will change, and ultimately the person’s behavior is what has to change.
In fact I think the disease paradigm, when not properly understood and contextualized, often enables destructive behavior.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:52 am to honeybadger07
quote:
..if your an addict and OD which results in your death....IMHO that means you are a weaker individual who could not overcome the cravings for a drug that you know is lethal....
You should have said this in the morning. I don’t care to argue this anymore. I know what I am and it’s pretty fricking strong. You wouldn’t believe some of the stories I have if I told you anyways.
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:54 am to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
Oh just ask them, they've heard blowhards like you all their lives.
The truth hurts sometimes. Calling it a disease is just a way around telling you that you are essentially mentally weak with no personal respect, no personal responsibility, and no self control. Its just a way of being nice that is a lie to make you feel 'better'.
This post was edited on 6/18/19 at 11:55 am
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:55 am to Ray Corona
quote:I'm mentally weak but I have personal respect and accountability. That's why I flush pain pills i'm prescribed down the toilet or never get them filled.
The truth hurts sometimes. Calling it a disease is just a way around telling you that you are essentially mentally weak with no personal respect, no personal responsibility.
This post was edited on 6/18/19 at 11:57 am
Posted on 6/18/19 at 11:56 am to Ray Corona
quote:
The truth hurts sometimes. Calling it a disease is just a way around telling you that you are essentially mentally weak with no personal respect, no personal responsibility.
Studies show the exact opposite, but don't let facts get in the way of ignorance.
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