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Will the second round of riots when Chauvin is released by an appeals court be as intense?
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:35 am
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:35 am
If George Zimmerman had been correctly charged instead of overcharged he would still be in jail today because of Florida add-ons for crimes committed with a weapon.
The communist AG of Minnesota has all but guaranteed the same for Chauvin by upgrading the top charge to Murder 2. Almost any jury in Minnesota will convict on the top charge regardless of the defense due to the environment there. The problem is that it will not stick on appeal. The unintentional portion of the 2nd Degree statute is too vague to apply and survive on appeal. And 3rd would have been a slam dunk. The problem is Minnesota law which unlike most states does not have depraved heart as 2nd degree.
The communist AG of Minnesota has all but guaranteed the same for Chauvin by upgrading the top charge to Murder 2. Almost any jury in Minnesota will convict on the top charge regardless of the defense due to the environment there. The problem is that it will not stick on appeal. The unintentional portion of the 2nd Degree statute is too vague to apply and survive on appeal. And 3rd would have been a slam dunk. The problem is Minnesota law which unlike most states does not have depraved heart as 2nd degree.
quote:
609.19 MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
Subdivision 1.Intentional murder; drive-by shootings. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or
(2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).
§Subd. 2.Unintentional murders. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:
(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or
(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.
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Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:37 am to Anaximander
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/9/23 at 4:22 pm
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:38 am to Anaximander
quote:
If George Zimmerman had been correctly charged instead of overcharged he would still be in jail today because of Florida add-ons for crimes committed with a weapon.
Which crime did he specifically commit?
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:39 am to Anaximander
I think Minnesota passed a bill recently that allows for lesser charges to be considered if the first is shot down.
Also, I think they may have some additional evidence on Chauvin that will lead the jury to believing it was intentional. Chauvin and Floyd worked together previously. If there were any fights or arguments or anything to prove they had issues with each other, the argument will be made that Chauvin was intending to effect the death of Floyd.
All it takes is a witness from the strip club to take the stand.
Also, I think they may have some additional evidence on Chauvin that will lead the jury to believing it was intentional. Chauvin and Floyd worked together previously. If there were any fights or arguments or anything to prove they had issues with each other, the argument will be made that Chauvin was intending to effect the death of Floyd.
All it takes is a witness from the strip club to take the stand.
This post was edited on 6/5/20 at 8:42 am
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:41 am to Anaximander
It’s incredibly difficult to overturn a criminal conviction when there is no misapplication of law. The Appellate Court would have to find that the jury’s decision was manifestly erroneous. They aren’t allowed to just review the case and render their own decision.
And Zimmerman wasn’t getting convicted on any charge because, based in the evidence presented at trial, it was legitimate self-defense.
And Zimmerman wasn’t getting convicted on any charge because, based in the evidence presented at trial, it was legitimate self-defense.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:41 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
If there were any fights or arguments or anything to prove they had issues with each other, the argument will be made that Chauvin was intending to effect the death of Floyd.
Or maybe a counterfeiting scheme?
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:42 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
Also, I think they may have some additional evidence on Chauvin that will lead the jury to believing it was premeditated. Chauvin and Floyd worked together previously. If there were any fights or arguments or anything to prove they had issues with each other, the argument will be made that Chauvin was intending to effect the death of Floyd.
When I first read that they worked together, I had one of those "holy shite!" moments. After having watched the video again, Floyd was calling Chauvin "officer" repeatedly. I don't think they really knew each other very well, at all.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:43 am to Anaximander
Unfortunately it will be worse. If he walks which I hope he doesn't.
This post was edited on 6/5/20 at 8:45 am
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:47 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
If there were any fights or arguments or anything to prove they had issues with each other, the argument will be made that Chauvin was intending to effect the death of Floyd.
This is an interesting twist. It would certainly make the case even more dramatic to watch, as if that’s needed.
It also makes the case against the other officers even weaker, unless it’s shown that they also previously knew Floyd or knew about the supposed beef between Floyd and Chauvin.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:49 am to Errerrerrwere
Riots will commence when the other 3 get off
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:50 am to Anaximander
Not if they stretch it out to the NBA Finals.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:52 am to MoarKilometers
Negligent Manslaughter.
Without training he brought a weapon into a situation that law enforcement told him not to pursue in a verbal warning directly before the incident.
He was a wannabe cop that did not have the mentality or training to follow a suspect of a crime.
Without training he brought a weapon into a situation that law enforcement told him not to pursue in a verbal warning directly before the incident.
He was a wannabe cop that did not have the mentality or training to follow a suspect of a crime.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:54 am to Anaximander
quote:
when Chauvin is released by an appeals court
On what grounds?
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:54 am to Anaximander
First, Minnesota allows a lesser included offenses statute. So even if the jury doesn't want to convict him of 2nd degree, they can give a verdict of guilty on 3rd degree or manslaughter. If a prosecutor were to egregiously overcharge someone then it could make a jury take the charges less seriously, but 2nd degree isn't totally outside the realm of possibility here.
Second, based on the testimony of the rookie officers it sounds like that could've been what caused Ellison (in addition to scoring political points, no doubt) to push for 2nd degree. If two rookies are telling you that you're not following proper procedure, you shut them down and continue, now knowingly, misusing a technique, and a guy dies because of it? I can see that being (arguably) 2nd degree.
Second, based on the testimony of the rookie officers it sounds like that could've been what caused Ellison (in addition to scoring political points, no doubt) to push for 2nd degree. If two rookies are telling you that you're not following proper procedure, you shut them down and continue, now knowingly, misusing a technique, and a guy dies because of it? I can see that being (arguably) 2nd degree.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:54 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
When I first read that they worked together, I had one of those "holy shite!" moments. After having watched the video again, Floyd was calling Chauvin "officer" repeatedly. I don't think they really knew each other very well, at all.
If it was a large place they can have enough people where there is no guarantee they knew each other.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:55 am to Anaximander
quote:
Without training he brought a weapon into a situation that law enforcement told him not to pursue in a verbal warning directly before the incident.
(1) Being armed is not against the law and the police have no right to disarm a citizen without cause (verbal or otherwise)
(2) There is no evidence whatsoever that Martin knew that Zimmerman was armed prior to attacking Zimmerman making this entire point immaterial.
This post was edited on 6/5/20 at 8:57 am
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:57 am to Ingeniero
quote:
First, Minnesota allows a lesser included offenses statute. So even if the jury doesn't want to convict him of 2nd degree, they can give a verdict of guilty on 3rd degree or manslaughter. If a prosecutor were to egregiously overcharge someone then it could make a jury take the charges less seriously, but 2nd degree isn't totally outside the realm of possibility here.
Second, based on the testimony of the rookie officers it sounds like that could've been what caused Ellison (in addition to scoring political points, no doubt) to push for 2nd degree. If two rookies are telling you that you're not following proper procedure, you shut them down and continue, now knowingly, misusing a technique, and a guy dies because of it? I can see that being (arguably) 2nd degree.
Do you really think a jury will not convict on the top count? And, read the statute again, there just is not enough there to legally get 2nd. The statute is poorly written and should include depraved heart or depraved indifference.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:58 am to nicholastiger
quote:
Riots will commence when the other 3 get off
This is much more likely.
Failing to intervene may have been immoral and unethical and absolutely deserving of being fired, but I don’t see how it is a crime.
Posted on 6/5/20 at 8:58 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
quote:
Without training he brought a weapon into a situation that law enforcement told him not to pursue in a verbal warning directly before the incident.
(1) Being armed is not against the law and the police have no right to disarm a citizen without cause (verbal or otherwise)
(2) There is no evidence whatsoever that Martin knew that Zimmerman was armed prior to attacking Zimmerman making this entire point immaterial.
WHo did the police try to disarm?
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