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re: Why massive student loan debt is a good thing
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:01 pm to Pecker
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:01 pm to Pecker
It sounds like many of you in this thread don't know that many many people already get student load debt forgiveness. My SIL had hers forgiven in whatever lottery they do. I've come across other people who've said they had their debt forgiven.
2
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:02 pm to airfernando
quote:
It sounds like many of you in this thread don't know that many many people already get student load debt forgiveness. My SIL had hers forgiven in whatever lottery they do. I've come across other people who've said they had their debt forgiven.
link?
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:04 pm to airfernando
You can have it forgiven in certain public sectors, but I'm not aware of any other programs.
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:04 pm to fallguy_1978
quote:
Me too but tuition was about $1200-1300 per semester when I was at LSU
I wish. I was cutting >5k checks every semester. Thank God for bartending
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:05 pm to slackster
quote:
It's mainly the government. There is an abundance of people with a degree, hence the degree requirements for a secretary or store manager. Cut off the easy money, and voila...
It's mainly everyone. It's a bad mix of:
1) Cultural Expectations - The American Dream, Degree = Automatic Six Figure Job, etc.
2) Government Lending
3) Businesses forgoing investment in employees
All three are responsible and we need to fix all three. The premise of the thread is something I agree and disagree with, because it's hard to fully blame the people under debt alone as they are really forced into competing for degrees, creating the current situation.
Do SOME people make terrible, awful choices and are not able to recover from them? Sure. But there are lots of people who were sold an idea that doesn't exist, and did it innocently enough.
I fully support eliminating or significantly reducing government loans for degrees. But it isn't the only issue, and that wasn't the thrust of the thread.
The thread reads like not forgiving loans to force people to only go to college to study business and engineering, which I do NOT support in the least. Again, diversity of thought is important to a good business atmosphere. And Colleges are not job training.
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:05 pm to slackster
quote:
You can have it forgiven in certain public sectors, but I'm not aware of any other programs.
You get "lottery" scholarship money here in Tennessee if you have good grades in high school and score a minimum of like 25 or something on the ACT.
You have to maintain a 3.0 or better in college though and be a full-time student. That's not loan forgiveness though.
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:06 pm to Pecker
quote:
Why do you think this is? What led to our current situation?
See above.
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:07 pm to Pecker
I agree. Don't subsidize bad decisions. The hard times of the depression made a great generation of people. This entitled generation needs a little pain to learn life lessons
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:07 pm to Pecker
quote:
After much meditation and tantric sex therapy
i went and gave a talk at my HS about this very topic (not going to college and not needing it to be successful, most degrees are shite investments, etc) and I was subsequently roasted by all the faculty afterwards. I made fun of my classmates (2 in particular that received degrees in Psych and Linguistic Anthropology and are working as substitute teachers and trucker dispatchers, respectively).
I've never considered the perspective that we need a guinea pig generation to go through it so that it's curbed down the road. nice write-up as usual. I'll add a section about it next time I speak
This post was edited on 4/3/18 at 7:13 pm
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:08 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
1) Cultural Expectations - The American Dream, Degree = Automatic Six Figure Job, etc.
2) Government Lending
3) Businesses forgoing investment in employees
You can have the American Dream all you want, but if you're too dumb (or simply not geared towards scholastic learning) to convince a school to give you money then you're stuck pursuing other options.
That's what I'm getting at. Too many kids are in school because too many kids can get easy, federally backed student loans. Schools lower admission standards and the quality of coursework to accept and retain more students. They do this because no matter what, they're going to get the federally backed student loan payments. Never mind if the kid graduates and can't pay. Never mind if the kid drops out. The schools should be giving these loans without government intervention. The loans should be awarded based on risk assessment like every other loan. It should be an investment for both parties.
Everyone goes to school so it's a minimum standard now that professional dog-walkers have a 4-year bachelors degree.
This post was edited on 4/3/18 at 7:15 pm
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:21 pm to Pecker
Subsidized loans in and of themselves are not a bad thing in my opinion. However, I’m of the unpopular opinion that if the masses support your degree your degree should support the masses.
While the arts have their place in society, our tax dollars should not be subsidizing Ivy League degrees in these majors.
While the arts have their place in society, our tax dollars should not be subsidizing Ivy League degrees in these majors.
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:24 pm to Pecker
quote:
Too many kids are in school because too many kids can get easy, federally backed student loans. Schools lower admission standards and the quality of coursework to accept and retain more students. They do this because no matter what, they're going to get the federally backed student loan payments. Never mind if the kid graduates and can't pay. Never mind if the kid drops out. The schools should be giving these loans without government intervention. The loans should be awarded based on risk assessment like every other loan. It should be an investment for both parties.
Everyone goes to school so it's a minimum standard now that professional dog-walkers have a 4-year bachelors degree.
I agree, but the loans didn't come first. The idea that everyone should go to college, because people who went to college make more money, and that blue collar jobs were worthless, etc. All of that came first, then they said "How do we 'encourage' people to go to college?" "LOANS!"
The problem is that the loans were paired with, and preceded by, near brainwashing of the populace to think in a specific way about college and earning potential. Just some light social engineering. Therefore, I find it hard not to have some sympathy for my generation. Yes, I got out of my loan, but that's a mix of intelligence, skill and luck. Not everyone has the same benefits, and it sucks remembering growing up and not even thinking about options outside of college. Not once. College was ALWAYS the thing I had to do. Not military service. Not blue collar apprenticeship. College. If I did anything else, I was going to be labeled "an idiot" for life. That's what our culture said. There was really no other choice.
I get, and agree with most of what you're saying, I just have two contentions:
1. It isn't solely on the backs of those in debt at least not those in the 25-35 age range. So although I don't agree with full loan forgiveness, we should consider some other option. Volunteering into loan repayment, something.
2. We have to be super careful with how we move forward. We should not treat college like job training, nor should we avoid letting people find and study their passion. Those are important ideals to keep in mind. So hoping that people don't study puppetry is not the right answer either. Decreasing government funding is.
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:26 pm to Muice
quote:
Subsidized loans in and of themselves are not a bad thing in my opinion. However, I’m of the unpopular opinion that if the masses support your degree your degree should support the masses.
While the arts have their place in society, our tax dollars should not be subsidizing Ivy League degrees in these majors.
People laugh at the idea of a degree in puppetry. But..
quote:
University of Connecticut
MA/MFA Puppetry
The Puppet Arts are a crossroads of many disciplines. Virtually all of the arts and many of the humanities and sciences feed directly into the form that is referred to as Puppetry. The students in The University of Connecticut’s Puppet Arts Program serve as good examples of this wide and varied field. In our graduate program we have had students with undergraduate degrees in English Literature, Music, Acting, Technical Theatre, Graphic Arts, Sculpture, costuming, Political Science and Religion/Philosophy.
Course of Study for the MA and MFA Puppetry
DRAM 3611 Trends in Contemporary American Puppet Theatre
DRAM 5131 Studies in Theatre History
DRAM 5159 Practicum in Puppet Arts
DRAM 5189 Field Studies in Puppet Arts
DRAM 5190 Internship in Puppet Arts
DRAM 5192 (A) Advanced Rod Puppet Theatre
DRAM 5192 (B) Advanced Mask Theatre
DRAM 5192 (C) Advanced Hand Puppet Theatre
DRAM 5192 (D) Advanced Shadow Theatre
DRAM 5192 (E) Independent Study in Puppet Arts
DRAM 5196 (A) MFA Project in Puppet Arts
DRAM 5196 (B) Puppet Arts MFA: Design
DRAM 5196 (C) Puppet Arts MFA: Scriptwriting
DRAM 5196 (D) Puppet Arts MFA: Technical Design
DRAM 5196 (E) Puppet Arts MFA: Construction
DRAM 5196 (F) Puppet Arts MFA: Direction
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:30 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
It's the thousands of people enrolling in programs like University of Phoenix, Southern New Hampshire University, etc. Extremely overpriced and easy to get into private schools that are less selective than directional public schools.
This is absolutely false.
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:30 pm to Pecker
quote:
Why massive student loan debt is a good thing
Do you want to build a strong argument for not going to war or having a draft?
Built that college debt. Lenders probably don't want to ship 20-year dollar signs overseas to die for something that isn't total warfare.
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:31 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
I agree, but the loans didn't come first. The idea that everyone should go to college, because people who went to college make more money, and that blue collar jobs were worthless, etc. All of that came first, then they said "How do we 'encourage' people to go to college?" "LOANS!"
Prospective students can want all of the loans in the world, but risk will naturally limit the number of loans that are available. Loan availability skyrocketed because they became government-backed. Everyone can want a BMW i8, but there are a limited number of people who qualify for those loans.
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:34 pm to Pecker
My understanding is that your federally backed student loans are only forgiven after paying 10% of your income after 20 years. If it’s still not paid off, it is forgiven and you get a 1099 to be taxed on the forgiven amount as income.
Don’t think for a second that the lenders or the government are losing money on the deal.
Don’t think for a second that the lenders or the government are losing money on the deal.
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:34 pm to Pecker
quote:
MA/MFA Puppetry
There are very few government loans that cover grad school. None of the major ones that are the problem do.
Grad school cost is a problem, and is usually a big driver of problems because the MA is the new BA.
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:36 pm to Pecker
Posted on 4/3/18 at 7:36 pm to mpar98
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------
Is this debt forgiveness being discussed somewhere?
------------------------------------------------------------
There's a lot of crazy talk running around and it's not isolated to one side or the other.
For instance, Rep Tom Garrett, a Republican from Virginia wants to a allow people to borrow against future Social Security benefits.
Short summary, loan forgiveness now to push out the age at which you can start collecting SSI. What could possibly go wrong?
----------------------------------------------------------
...
As a member of the House of Representatives I’m in position to do try to do something to help my constituents and all Americans deal with growing student debt. That’s why I’ve introduced legislation called the Student Security Act.
My legislation would allow young people to choose – on a strictly voluntary basis – to get student loan forgiveness in exchange for agreeing to raise their own qualifying age for Social Security benefits many decades in the future.
...
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
Is this debt forgiveness being discussed somewhere?
------------------------------------------------------------
There's a lot of crazy talk running around and it's not isolated to one side or the other.
For instance, Rep Tom Garrett, a Republican from Virginia wants to a allow people to borrow against future Social Security benefits.
Short summary, loan forgiveness now to push out the age at which you can start collecting SSI. What could possibly go wrong?
----------------------------------------------------------
...
As a member of the House of Representatives I’m in position to do try to do something to help my constituents and all Americans deal with growing student debt. That’s why I’ve introduced legislation called the Student Security Act.
My legislation would allow young people to choose – on a strictly voluntary basis – to get student loan forgiveness in exchange for agreeing to raise their own qualifying age for Social Security benefits many decades in the future.
...
------------------------------------------------------------
This post was edited on 4/3/18 at 7:37 pm
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