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re: When will the history books be rewritten?

Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:02 pm to
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
40042 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:02 pm to
quote:

It is going to be a hellacious job accounting the history of the 2020 riots, plagues, and social purges.



It is going to be somewhat easier, as there won't be any lacuna in the source material, which presents far more problems for historians than having too much data. There will be a lot of debate about frameworks and the relationship between that frame and the material conditions that result. Already, there has been talk of using algorithms to move through raw data for the purpose of discarding what is not essential, but at some point someone will look through that discarded data and use it to advance another line of argument.
Posted by Kafka
I am the moral conscience of TD
Member since Jul 2007
159142 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:03 pm to
"Those who refuse to remember the past are condemned to rewrite it". -- Mort Sahl

Posted by LegendInMyMind
Member since Apr 2019
76241 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:04 pm to
quote:

I disagree. 1st person sources are highly regarded, and have been since history became a discipline, but understanding and contextualizing a source is part of a historians job. 1st person sources, without broader context, can miss key elements, since lived experience of a single person may exist outside of understanding the context of that experience within broader cultural movements.

I always use as many sources as I can until I get a handle on the time period, at which point I can reanalyze and question sources, and refine ideas, repeating that process over and over.

Good thing we usually have much more than one primary source. With every hand, or mind, a source or historical event passes through, it gets a little more bastardized. Even the best, most balanced historian cannot help but judge historical events through the lens of their own experiences and beliefs. The Bible is likely the best example of this.
Posted by TigerFanInSouthland
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
28065 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:06 pm to
quote:

take the stance of not going full melt down mode? yeah, you shouldn't be surprised

I wish I could say I was surprised that you would choose to go full hysteria


It’S oNlY cOnFeDeRaTe StAtUeS!!!!1!!1!1!!1!1!!
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
40042 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:07 pm to
Yeah we agree. But the tension in history itself is that structure of narration doesn't reflect the structure of lived experience. People taking part in the same event can have wildly different interpretations of that event. We put a lot of trust in the people who write the first impressions of events, generally, as they are able to set the frame of the narrative. Thankfully, the field is so atomized that serious historical work avoids the 'grand narrative' impulse. The downside to that is the historical arguments in the mainstream end up being decades behind the ones in the academy, and that also presents opportunity for backlash.
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
56776 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

Thankfully, the field is so atomized that serious historical work avoids the 'grand narrative' impulse. The downside to that is the historical arguments in the mainstream end up being decades behind the ones in the academy, and that also presents opportunity for backlash.


I'm so happy that I ignored my family that encouraged me to become a history academic. All this shite sounds miserable. I'll keep it to a hobby.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
40042 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:14 pm to
quote:

Good thing we usually have much more than one primary source. With every hand, or mind, a source or historical event passes through, it gets a little more bastardized. Even the best, most balanced historian cannot help but judge historical events through the lens of their own experiences and beliefs. The Bible is likely the best example of this.


I'm not seeing how this relates to my point, as I never implied that only one primary source was used.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
40042 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:17 pm to
quote:

I'm so happy that I ignored my family that encouraged me to become a history academic. All this shite sounds miserable. I'll keep it to a hobby.



It does take forever to compile information. Thank god I've had a decade of database access and the ability to speedread. Integrating historical information with other disciplines is also doubly time-consuming, as now papers draw from multiple disciplines, which requires more and more background work to understand.
Posted by arcalades
USA
Member since Feb 2014
19276 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:18 pm to
Significant "rewriting" of history began at least as far back as the 1920's.

quote:

I cant keep up.
quote:

Tidefan
name checks out
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
139245 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:21 pm to
They won't be rewritten. Information contained in books will simply be buried in the digital network while easily available information will be the new history.

The 1619 project is a great example. The new history will be taught in schools. Hell, there's going to be an entire generation that thinks Alexander Hamilton was black
Posted by EZE Tiger Fan
Member since Jul 2004
55457 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:27 pm to
It has been going on for a long time.

Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
139245 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:31 pm to
The latest one about the police being formed for the sole purpose of catching slaves was hilarious
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:31 pm to
The 1619 Project is an open attempt to do just that.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
21849 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:34 pm to
Rewriting history books is and has always been a popular activity.
Posted by Bunsbert Montcroff
Boise ID
Member since Jan 2008
5789 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:38 pm to
quote:

I disagree. 1st person sources are highly regarded, and have been since history became a discipline, but understanding and contextualizing a source is part of a historians job. 1st person sources, without broader context, can miss key elements, since lived experience of a single person may exist outside of understanding the context of that experience within broader cultural movements.

I always use as many sources as I can until I get a handle on the time period, at which point I can reanalyze and question sources, and refine ideas, repeating that process over and over.

i think his point may have been that a synthesis of primary sources is preferable to secondary or tertiary sources. of course, it takes someone who can contextualize those primary sources to produce a secondary/tertiary source. not everyone can do archaeology, read linear b, or negotiate a special collections library.

that said, historians do tend to fetishize the primary source without acknowledging that the process of preserving a document or an archive or artifact is highly mediated. but then again most historians aren't too self reflective about what they do

@crazy4lsu have you read carolyn steedman's dust: the archive and cultural history it does a great job of underscoring what we can expect to be present and absent in archives.
This post was edited on 7/1/20 at 4:40 pm
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
31228 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:43 pm to
quote:

History books are rewritten or revised pretty often



Everything is fine. This is completely normal.



Historians have been researching and updating accounts of history for as long as history has been written. There isn't one "history book" anyway.

If one wants to know the true "history" of even a single day event they must be ready to read many accounts of it to distill the most accurate version of the events.
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
56776 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

It does take forever to compile information. Thank god I've had a decade of database access and the ability to speedread. Integrating historical information with other disciplines is also doubly time-consuming, as now papers draw from multiple disciplines, which requires more and more background work to understand.



You must have an insane energy level to be doing medical school and still have even the most remote amount of time to give a frick about this.
Posted by Klark Kent
Houston via BR
Member since Jan 2008
75980 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 12:50 pm to
quote:

If one wants to know the true "history" of even a single day event they must be ready to read many accounts of it to distill the most accurate version of the events.


for example: when people read your post history and the dislikes with each post. right?
Posted by biglego
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2007
85592 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

Or has it already started?


History has been rewritten since it was first written. Whether it be by a monk or a secular humanist, whatever. So considering the prog infestation of academia, many history books are likely to take that slant.
Posted by Harry Morgan
Member since Sep 2019
10340 posts
Posted on 7/1/20 at 1:23 pm to
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