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re: When an object enters the atmosphere it burns up from compression, not friction.
Posted on 7/25/22 at 10:41 pm to GumboPot
Posted on 7/25/22 at 10:41 pm to GumboPot
quote:Isn't it just semantics though? Doesn't compression just create more friction between air molecules, which creates heat?
the meteor is heating up due to air compression not friction
2
Posted on 7/25/22 at 10:43 pm to Korkstand
Posted on 7/25/22 at 10:50 pm to When in Rome
Think of a reeentry vehicle and why it’s shaped the way it is; with the blunt side facing down towards Earth instead of using a nose cone to reduce drag. The air in front of the vehicle as it falls will be compressed into a shock front and heated up dramatically, and the shape of the vehicle keeps this hot air from making contact with any part of the vehicle that isn’t the blunt side which is equipped to deal with the heat. I guess people typically think of the heating as purely a drag phenomena where skin friction is heating up the skin of the vehicle, but that’s not the dominant mechanism here.
Ultimately though, why does compression produce heat? Intermolecular forces that some would call an internal friction. So to some extent we are playing a semantics game about what is and isn’t friction.
Ultimately though, why does compression produce heat? Intermolecular forces that some would call an internal friction. So to some extent we are playing a semantics game about what is and isn’t friction.
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:05 pm to Ross
There can be neither compression nor friction in the absence or matter which, in this case, is the atmosphere/gas.
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:24 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Doesn't compression just create more friction between air molecules, which creates heat?
Compression increases kinetic energy. (Atoms/molecules colliding with each other.)
Energy is released as heat.
This post was edited on 7/25/22 at 11:25 pm
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:27 pm to GumboPot
Makes perfect sense and I had never thought of it. I guess some things seem to make universal sense and don't often get questioned.
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:30 pm to Ross
quote:
So to some extent we are playing a semantics game about what is and isn’t friction.
Compression increases kinetic energy. Kinetic energy is 1/2mv^2. When v of the molecules and atoms increase from compression, KE increases and is released when the atoms/molecules collide in the form of heat.
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:35 pm to GumboPot
Wait...
So NASA states that friction is involved, And Slate.com claims it's not friction.
Who are we supposed to believe here? NASA or Slate?
BTW: Compression involves friction. This whole topic is stupid.
So NASA states that friction is involved, And Slate.com claims it's not friction.
Who are we supposed to believe here? NASA or Slate?
BTW: Compression involves friction. This whole topic is stupid.
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:35 pm to GumboPot
I don’t believe you.
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:40 pm to GumboPot
quote:How does that differ from something we might call "friction"?
released when the atoms/molecules collide in the form of heat.
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:42 pm to magildachunks
quote:Conundrum. It sucks so bad you can't believe your own eyes and brain.
Who are we supposed to believe here? NASA or Slate?
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:43 pm to Korkstand
quote:
How does that differ from something we might call "friction"?
It doesn't.
NASA tells us it's friction.
Slate writer spends an entire article trying to tell us it's different.
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:44 pm to Gaggle
quote:
It sucks so bad you can't believe your own eyes and brain.
And what do your eyes and brain tell you?
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:44 pm to magildachunks
Maybe someone somewhere proved it couldn't be friction so a new explanation has to be slowly rolled out. That happens a lot.
This post was edited on 7/26/22 at 12:05 am
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:47 pm to Gaggle
quote:
Maybe someone somewhere proved it couldn't be fiction so a new explanation has to be slowly rolled out. That happens a lot.
You didn't answer the question.
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:47 pm to magildachunks
quote:There's fire in the sky.
And what do your eyes and brain tell you?
The big holes are devoid of rock and devoid of signs of high temperature, and could be anything
The few pieces that have witnesses and have photos are usually made of iron and look industrial
My little fleck of certified catalogued 'meteorite' I own looks like any metal shaving
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:49 pm to Gaggle
quote:
There's fire in the sky.
The big holes are devoid of rock and devoid of signs of high temperature, and could be anything
The few pieces that have witnesses and have photos are usually made of iron and look industrial
My little fleck of certified catalogued 'meteorite' I own looks like any metal shaving
Ah.
Ok.
You're an idiot.
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:53 pm to magildachunks
Do your eyes tell you something different?
This is from wiki's page. They say that it is iron. I have pieces of scrap metal like this from my old work
This is the best evidence they exist. One that was said to actually be seen falling. They know you are easy to fool.
This is from wiki's page. They say that it is iron. I have pieces of scrap metal like this from my old work
This is the best evidence they exist. One that was said to actually be seen falling. They know you are easy to fool.
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:56 pm to Gaggle
quote:
Do your eyes tell you something different?
This is from wiki's page. They say that it is iron. I have pieces of scrap metal like this from my old work
This is the best evidence they exist. One that was said to actually be seen falling. They know you are easy to fool.
Are you trying to argue that meteorites don't exist?
WTF are you trying to say here?
Posted on 7/25/22 at 11:59 pm to Korkstand
quote:
How does that differ from something we might call "friction"?
This is a good question.
Friction is the resistance to shear of the fluid and depends on the fluid and surface properties. Resistance to shear is normally referred to as viscosity. Does temperature change when a fluid is sheared? I’d say yes however it’s small compared to the temperature contribution of compression that directly involves increasing the velocity of the atoms/molecules.
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