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Started By
Message
re: What's the argument for the Mississippi flag to not be changed?
Posted on 6/25/20 at 4:00 pm to Harry Morgan
Posted on 6/25/20 at 4:00 pm to Harry Morgan
“We’re only taking down confederate shite”
Proceeds to take down a lot of other unrelated shite
Proceeds to take down a lot of other unrelated shite
Posted on 6/25/20 at 4:00 pm to Bayou
Shame on you for thinking for yourself.
Posted on 6/25/20 at 4:14 pm to TigerBlazer
quote:
New Zealamd recently changed their flag recently. Looks much better and no ties to British colonialism
That was actually voted down. 57% - 43%, if memory serves.
Posted on 6/25/20 at 4:21 pm to transcend
Nothing like the Electoral College. One is in the Constitution and the other was decided by one appointed judge.
Posted on 6/25/20 at 4:33 pm to Broski
Arguing to change flags, product names, statues is so misguided.
Frankly, I don’t care what gets changed or taken down. But, the real issue is changing peoples ideology and that’s not a factor of any removal or name
Frankly, I don’t care what gets changed or taken down. But, the real issue is changing peoples ideology and that’s not a factor of any removal or name
Posted on 6/25/20 at 4:38 pm to Broski
quote:
I'm curious because I fail to understand the outrage.
I'm sure this will get downvoted into oblivion, but here I am.
Because it is their state flag, and the majority may not want to change it. There's really nothing else to it.
Posted on 6/25/20 at 4:39 pm to East Coast Band
quote:
Arguing to change flags, product names, statues is so misguided.
Frankly, I don’t care what gets changed or taken down. But, the real issue is changing peoples ideology and that’s not a factor of any removal or name
I prefer an economy of words approach.
Platitudes and no substance.
Posted on 6/25/20 at 4:46 pm to Broski
Because you don't give a mouse a cookie
Posted on 6/25/20 at 5:22 pm to transcend
quote:
Oh kind of like the electoral college?
Are you stupid or something?
Posted on 6/25/20 at 5:23 pm to Broski
Muh HeRiTaGe
This post was edited on 6/25/20 at 5:24 pm
Posted on 6/25/20 at 5:25 pm to Broski
Let the people in Mississippi vote this November on it. If the people pass to remove it, then do it. If they don’t, then it stays.
Posted on 6/25/20 at 5:26 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
HERITAGE NOT HATE
Can you imagine Berlin having the swastika in their state flag and using this line of reasoning to defend it?
Posted on 6/25/20 at 5:35 pm to Broski
There is nothing wrong with that flag! It is the outsiders who do not understand southern heritage. To me and most southerners, the flag is not a symbol at all of racism! To me the flag represents that the south had enough of the north's BS and controlling ways. Call us a traitor but remember that the northerners were the OG traitors. So how can they point the finger at us when they did it first?
On a national media level, the flag is portrayed as a symbol of hate of blacks. In reality, in the south, there is no animosity when that flag is flown.
On a national media level, the flag is portrayed as a symbol of hate of blacks. In reality, in the south, there is no animosity when that flag is flown.
Posted on 6/25/20 at 5:36 pm to Philzilla2k
quote:
Oh kind of like the electoral college?
quote:
Are you stupid or something?
Yes. Yes, he is.
Posted on 6/25/20 at 5:46 pm to Ted2010
The Nazi’s shenanigans were tragic and cruel
The Confederacy’s shenanigans were cheeky and fun
The Confederacy’s shenanigans were cheeky and fun
Posted on 6/25/20 at 5:48 pm to Broski
quote:That seems to be a theme in all of your posts.
I fail to understand
Posted on 6/25/20 at 6:15 pm to Broski
I particularly like the flag, though I understand why many don’t. My only wish for the new flag (we’ll end up having one soon enough) is that they keep the the horizontal rwb stripes. Put a magnolia in the upper left corner where the current confederate flag is and I’ll be happy
Posted on 6/25/20 at 6:36 pm to Broski
Copying from another post...
In the late 1990s, I was an attorney of record involved in the “Flag Lawsuit” filed against the State of Mississippi. The following is based upon my legal and historical research and personal knowledge from that lawsuit.
The canton corner of the Mississippi Flag, though appearing identical to the Confederate Battle Flag, is actually, from its very statutory description, a symbol of reunification at a time when the people of Mississippi had suffered through more than a decade of bloody war and reconstruction. By 1890, Reconstruction had ended, yet Blacks continued to be elected to the legislature.
The current flag was first adopted in 1894, and based upon historical documentation submitted to the court in the “Flag Lawsuit” by the Attorney General, Blacks were members of the Mississippi Legislature and voted in favor of the adoption of the current flag. Following is the law that adopted the flag. Pay close attention to the symbolic meaning of the 13 stars and the colors.
"§ 3-3-16. Design of state flag. The official flag of the State of Mississippi shall have the following design: with width two-thirds (2/3) of its length; with the union (canton) to be square, in width two-thirds (2/3) of the width of the flag; the ground of the union to be red and a broad blue saltire thereon, bordered with white and emblazoned with thirteen (13) mullets or five-pointed stars, corresponding with the number of the original States of the Union; the field to be divided into three (3) bars of equal width, the upper one blue, the center one white, and the lower one, extending the whole length of the flag, red (the national colors); this being the flag adopted by the Mississippi Legislature in the 1894 Special Session."
Just 4 years prior, the following historical account is evidence of the positive race relations experienced by Mississippians at the time.
In the Mississippi House of Representatives on February 1, 1890, an appropriation for a monument to the Confederate dead was being considered. A delegate had just spoken against the bill, when John F. Harris, a Black Republican delegate from Washington County, rose to speak:
"Mr. Speaker! I have risen in my place to offer a few words on the bill.
I have come from a sick bed. Perhaps it was not prudent for me to come. But sir, I could not rest quietly in my room without contributing a few remarks of my own.
I was sorry to hear the speech of the young gentlemen from Marshall County. I am sorry that any son of a soldier would go on record as opposed to the erections of a monument in honor of the brave dead. And, Sir, I am convinced that had he seen what I saw at Seven Pines, and in the Seven Day's fighting around Richmond, the battlefield covered with mangled forms of those who fought for this country and their country's honor, he would not have made the speech.
When the news came that the South had been invaded, those men went forth to fight for what they believed, and they made not requests for monuments. But they died, and their virtues should be remembered.
Sir, I went with them. I, too, wore the gray, the same color my master wore. We stayed for four long years, and if that war had gone on till now I would have been there yet. I want to honor those brave men who died for their convictions.
When my Mother died I was a boy. Who, Sir, then acted the part of Mother to the orphaned slave boy, but my old Missus! Were she living now, or could speak to me from those high realms where are gathered the sainted dead, she would tell me to vote for this bill. And, Sir, I shall vote for it. I want it known to all the world that my vote is given in favor of the bill to erect a monument in HONOR OF THE CONFEDERATE DEAD."
When the applause died down, the measure passed overwhelmingly, and every Black member voted "AYE."
(Source: Daily Clarion Ledger, Jackson, Mississippi, Feb 23, 1890)
In my opinion, Mississippians have a very amicable relationship among all races, though by human nature, there are always exceptions to the rule. Racism has existed from the beginning of mankind and likely will always exist to a certain degree. Though we should always strive for improvement in race relations and in all matters, everyone should respect other’s cultural differences and no segment of society should be condemned from honoring their culture. It resolves nothing to ban a flag. Our energies are better served focusing on true resolutions.
But, that’s not really the issue here. The issue here is disparagement of our Great State by outsiders for political or other advantage. The fact is, Mississippi Blacks and Whites, in harmony, adopted a flag in 1894 to symbolize both a painful history (lest we forget) and a reunification of a great State with a great Nation. Due to a procedural technicality that occurred in the adoption of the 1906 Mississippi Code, the Supreme Court determined in the “Flag Lawsuit” that the flag was no longer “official” and invited the Legislature to act. The Legislature accepted the invitation and placed the issue on the ballot in 2001. A campaign of educating voters about the true history and symbolism of our flag was conducted by supporters of the Flag. 2/3 of Mississippi voters, Black and White, re-adopted the 1894 flag.
Outsiders wish to disparage our great people. I pray that our elected officials will not succumb to outside influence. Should they do so, however, I trust that they will limit their response by again letting the people decide this issue and allow racial harmony to shine once again and remind the rest of the Nation how proud and united we are as a People, in spite of a painful history and our imperfections. History should be embraced and should serve as a reminder to avoid repeating. Again, “lest we forget.”
In the late 1990s, I was an attorney of record involved in the “Flag Lawsuit” filed against the State of Mississippi. The following is based upon my legal and historical research and personal knowledge from that lawsuit.
The canton corner of the Mississippi Flag, though appearing identical to the Confederate Battle Flag, is actually, from its very statutory description, a symbol of reunification at a time when the people of Mississippi had suffered through more than a decade of bloody war and reconstruction. By 1890, Reconstruction had ended, yet Blacks continued to be elected to the legislature.
The current flag was first adopted in 1894, and based upon historical documentation submitted to the court in the “Flag Lawsuit” by the Attorney General, Blacks were members of the Mississippi Legislature and voted in favor of the adoption of the current flag. Following is the law that adopted the flag. Pay close attention to the symbolic meaning of the 13 stars and the colors.
"§ 3-3-16. Design of state flag. The official flag of the State of Mississippi shall have the following design: with width two-thirds (2/3) of its length; with the union (canton) to be square, in width two-thirds (2/3) of the width of the flag; the ground of the union to be red and a broad blue saltire thereon, bordered with white and emblazoned with thirteen (13) mullets or five-pointed stars, corresponding with the number of the original States of the Union; the field to be divided into three (3) bars of equal width, the upper one blue, the center one white, and the lower one, extending the whole length of the flag, red (the national colors); this being the flag adopted by the Mississippi Legislature in the 1894 Special Session."
Just 4 years prior, the following historical account is evidence of the positive race relations experienced by Mississippians at the time.
In the Mississippi House of Representatives on February 1, 1890, an appropriation for a monument to the Confederate dead was being considered. A delegate had just spoken against the bill, when John F. Harris, a Black Republican delegate from Washington County, rose to speak:
"Mr. Speaker! I have risen in my place to offer a few words on the bill.
I have come from a sick bed. Perhaps it was not prudent for me to come. But sir, I could not rest quietly in my room without contributing a few remarks of my own.
I was sorry to hear the speech of the young gentlemen from Marshall County. I am sorry that any son of a soldier would go on record as opposed to the erections of a monument in honor of the brave dead. And, Sir, I am convinced that had he seen what I saw at Seven Pines, and in the Seven Day's fighting around Richmond, the battlefield covered with mangled forms of those who fought for this country and their country's honor, he would not have made the speech.
When the news came that the South had been invaded, those men went forth to fight for what they believed, and they made not requests for monuments. But they died, and their virtues should be remembered.
Sir, I went with them. I, too, wore the gray, the same color my master wore. We stayed for four long years, and if that war had gone on till now I would have been there yet. I want to honor those brave men who died for their convictions.
When my Mother died I was a boy. Who, Sir, then acted the part of Mother to the orphaned slave boy, but my old Missus! Were she living now, or could speak to me from those high realms where are gathered the sainted dead, she would tell me to vote for this bill. And, Sir, I shall vote for it. I want it known to all the world that my vote is given in favor of the bill to erect a monument in HONOR OF THE CONFEDERATE DEAD."
When the applause died down, the measure passed overwhelmingly, and every Black member voted "AYE."
(Source: Daily Clarion Ledger, Jackson, Mississippi, Feb 23, 1890)
In my opinion, Mississippians have a very amicable relationship among all races, though by human nature, there are always exceptions to the rule. Racism has existed from the beginning of mankind and likely will always exist to a certain degree. Though we should always strive for improvement in race relations and in all matters, everyone should respect other’s cultural differences and no segment of society should be condemned from honoring their culture. It resolves nothing to ban a flag. Our energies are better served focusing on true resolutions.
But, that’s not really the issue here. The issue here is disparagement of our Great State by outsiders for political or other advantage. The fact is, Mississippi Blacks and Whites, in harmony, adopted a flag in 1894 to symbolize both a painful history (lest we forget) and a reunification of a great State with a great Nation. Due to a procedural technicality that occurred in the adoption of the 1906 Mississippi Code, the Supreme Court determined in the “Flag Lawsuit” that the flag was no longer “official” and invited the Legislature to act. The Legislature accepted the invitation and placed the issue on the ballot in 2001. A campaign of educating voters about the true history and symbolism of our flag was conducted by supporters of the Flag. 2/3 of Mississippi voters, Black and White, re-adopted the 1894 flag.
Outsiders wish to disparage our great people. I pray that our elected officials will not succumb to outside influence. Should they do so, however, I trust that they will limit their response by again letting the people decide this issue and allow racial harmony to shine once again and remind the rest of the Nation how proud and united we are as a People, in spite of a painful history and our imperfections. History should be embraced and should serve as a reminder to avoid repeating. Again, “lest we forget.”
Posted on 6/25/20 at 8:35 pm to HurricaneTiger
quote:
It’s impossible to tell because it’s clear that their message is not only disorganized, but also not rational. At first, I thought it was just blanket trying to remove monuments and emblems for some contrived form of getting rid of “systemic racism,” which I didn’t support then and I don’t support now.
However, it seems that the true goal is something more sinister, while leading on these useful idiots with these preconceived notions.
Though, I could definitely be wrong.
Or, in a general sense when excluding the most extremist... it’s just about not liking seeing monuments to your parents, grand parents and so ons suffering.
I don’t know your background but surely if you strip away the us vs them politics you could see some comparable that would irk you if you had to drive down the road past the statue to the school named after a bunch of guys that had an uncomfortable story in your history.
Changing those names doesn’t fix the world but it does give you a chance to feel like you’ve gained some control of your environment and got rid of something that was a downer for you (and popular with people that treat you poorly)
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