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Posted on 11/15/21 at 2:52 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Right now, consumer choice is being influenced by another scam, government incentives which standard vehicles do not have.
This would make more sense if the average EV was cheaper than a comparable ICE vehicle. Even with incentives, EVs are more expensive than a comparable ICE counterpart.
Swing and a miss.
Posted on 11/15/21 at 2:53 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
I’ve said it before: Massive EV adoption on the consumer level will have VERY little to do with it being green and will have a lot more to do with EVs simply being the better option vs ICE.
Gubment mandates, gubmint incentives ;thup:
People sell out really easily.
Easily.
Posted on 11/15/21 at 2:56 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
People sell out really easily.
What are people selling out of when buying an ev
Posted on 11/15/21 at 2:57 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
if the average EV was cheaper than a comparable ICE vehicle.
The Nissan Leaf runs you about 19k then you still get some charging rebates. Nah, it's cheap.
Posted on 11/15/21 at 3:03 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The Nissan Leaf runs you about 19k then you still get some charging rebates. Nah, it's cheap.
And yet, still more expensive than a comparable ICE vehicle. Thanks for proving my point.
Any other strawmen for you to tackle?
Posted on 11/15/21 at 3:19 pm to JohnnyKilroy
19k after gubment payoff. No one is buying a base leaf at 27k.
Its the rebate, chief. It cant compete with cars at that price, and electric isnt enough incentive. They require a rebate and in the future, mandates.
There is no E car revolution without govt making it happen.
Without incentives, quantity demanded falls drastically.
Its the rebate, chief. It cant compete with cars at that price, and electric isnt enough incentive. They require a rebate and in the future, mandates.
There is no E car revolution without govt making it happen.
Without incentives, quantity demanded falls drastically.
This post was edited on 11/15/21 at 3:34 pm
Posted on 11/15/21 at 3:33 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
19k after gubment payoff. No one is buying a base leaf at 27k. Its the rebate, chief. It cant compete with cars at that price, and electric isnt enough incentive. They require a rebate and in the future, mandates.
First of all, it’s closer to 20k if you special order a zero option leaf.
Second, EVs sales have skyrocketed over the last few years, even though they are still more expensive than their ICE counterparts AFTER incentives.
Many consumers are choosing a leaf, or a model 3 or a model Y etc despite the fact that they can get a comparable ice vehicle for cheaper.
You contend that EVs are only bought because the incentives make for a lower purchase price vs ICE.
You’re uninformed or dishonest.
shite, by FAR the most popular EV doesn’t even get any federal tax incentives. Hasn’t for nearly two year and sales are through the fricking roof.
This post was edited on 11/15/21 at 3:42 pm
Posted on 11/15/21 at 3:46 pm to TexasTiger90
quote:
Right off the bat, you're parroting bullshite talking points
That is still a quarter million dead birds annually.
‘See it could be worse’ is a weak argument.
And yes, I am strongly against outdoor cats and have been for years.
This post was edited on 11/15/21 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 11/15/21 at 3:50 pm to weagle99
quote:
That is still a quarter million dead birds annually.
Posted on 11/15/21 at 3:53 pm to weagle99
quote:
See it could be worse’ is a week argument.
Sure, it might be this week’s argument, but what about next week?
quote:
And yes, I am strong against outdoor cats and have been for years.
I’m with you. Rate my strength next to the average outdoor cat and I would definitely be strong against them.
This post was edited on 11/15/21 at 3:55 pm
Posted on 11/15/21 at 3:56 pm to weagle99
I'm only saying you probably shouldn't have that as a backbone of your case against wind turbines. Hell, I built them across the country from eastern Oregon to upstate New York, and the only birds I ever saw dead were in the grill of my truck
I understand a lot of the arguments against wind. But they paid my bills plenty fine and give a lot of guys and gals across the country the opportunity to get out of bad socioeconomic positions and into a rewarding trade, whether electrical or ironworker or civil work. They're imperfect, sure. No fight there. However, the sites I built gave affordable power to rural areas and entire counties just the same, a lot of good paying jobs to struggling folks, and a sense that you were making a difference, however small it may be in the grand scheme.
I understand a lot of the arguments against wind. But they paid my bills plenty fine and give a lot of guys and gals across the country the opportunity to get out of bad socioeconomic positions and into a rewarding trade, whether electrical or ironworker or civil work. They're imperfect, sure. No fight there. However, the sites I built gave affordable power to rural areas and entire counties just the same, a lot of good paying jobs to struggling folks, and a sense that you were making a difference, however small it may be in the grand scheme.
Posted on 11/15/21 at 4:02 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
First of all, it’s closer to 20k if you special order a zero option leaf.
Second, EVs sales have skyrocketed over the last few years, even though they are still more expensive than their ICE counterparts AFTER incentives.
Its a manipulated market, the choice is an illusion. Without government favoritism, few would sell.
Take away incentives, few people are buying.
I'm not paying 27K - 30k for a Leaf which is one of the cheaper offerings, and why I used it.
There are vehicles that far outclass it in that price range.
Government mandates that are for 2030, those retoolings and designs are happening new, and he next couple of years.
Its a heavily manipulated market that cannot stand on its own at the current time.
Posted on 11/15/21 at 4:05 pm to billjamin
quote:
Honestly the lights blinking in unison at night is the worst part.
You don’t want to see them at random. Trust me.
Posted on 11/15/21 at 4:07 pm to JohnnyKilroy
Why is that funny to you?
I don’t see the humor in a quarter million dead animals that didn’t have to die.
I don’t see the humor in a quarter million dead animals that didn’t have to die.
Posted on 11/15/21 at 4:11 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
shite, by FAR the most popular EV doesn’t even get any federal tax incentives.
Its not in the top 15 best selling vehicles for 2021.
Without incentives and mandates, the E car revolution will not become the norm.
This post was edited on 11/15/21 at 4:12 pm
Posted on 11/15/21 at 4:17 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Its a manipulated market, the choice is an illusion. Without government favoritism, few would sell. Take away incentives, few people are buying. I'm not paying 27K - 30k for a Leaf which is one of the cheaper offerings, and why I used it. There are vehicles that far outclass it in that price range. Government mandates that are for 2030, those retoolings and designs are happening new, and he next couple of years. Its a heavily manipulated market that cannot stand on its own at the current time.
You also picked one of the least popular EVs made.
If you buy the most popular EV, you receive zero in federal tax incentives. It’s one of the best selling new cars on the market and is also the fastest selling used car on the market as well.
Posted on 11/15/21 at 4:18 pm to 0x15E
quote:
You don’t want to see them at random. Trust me.
I have. I'm surrounded by them and after any type of significant weather they must do some kind of reset that makes them go nuts until they get resynced. It's not pleasant.
Posted on 11/15/21 at 4:20 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
If you buy the most popular EV, you receive zero in federal tax incentives.
Yet its still outsold by many ICE vehicles.
Guess choice isn't leaning that way, quite yet.
But with enough gubment manipulation, that will change.
Posted on 11/15/21 at 4:26 pm to weagle99
quote:
I don’t see the humor in a quarter million dead animals that didn’t have to die.
They get eaten by some other animal. Circle of life.
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