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re: What if the Nazis developed an atomic bomb first?

Posted on 1/27/24 at 9:45 pm to
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
64718 posts
Posted on 1/27/24 at 9:45 pm to
quote:

Any documentation that Hitler's engineers flying-wing (B-2 concept) was more than a theory? I mean, they put the Me-262 into service and even with the small numbers it was more than formidable.


I think you’re talking about the Horten Ho 229. It was a fighter bomber concept. So there was no possibility of it ever being used to carry about a nuclear strike. It had neither the range or payload capability. I think they did build a small handful of them but never got past preliminary test flights. I think the Smithsonian or another similar museum has one in storage.
Posted by TigersnJeeps
FL Panhandle
Member since Jan 2021
1699 posts
Posted on 1/27/24 at 9:47 pm to
I recall reading that Hitler once told ADM Raeder sometime in the 1930s that he didn't plan to go to war until 1948-49(I think).

Just look at the ambitious plans for the KriegsMarine including carriers that would have taken at least that long to build so they would have some level of parity with Britain and France.

Don't know how they would have fueled that large of a fleet...

Fortunately, the AXIS did a bad job of coordinating efforts or even informing each other of their plans.

Alternative history can be interesting....
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
66794 posts
Posted on 1/28/24 at 1:50 am to
hitler may have destroyed london but do you think Germany had many planes flying over new york?

Posted by Scoob
Near Exxon
Member since Jun 2009
20443 posts
Posted on 1/28/24 at 6:19 am to
Ultimately, nukes aren't the practical gamechanger that would have won it for Germany.

They couldn't have it us at the time, Moscow was a stretch. We had the delivery system, they didn't.

They may have hit a city somewhere in central Europe to try to convince the Russians to back off, but I imagine that would have convinced the Allies that "victory soon at all costs" was now essential. The US, in particular, would need to destroy Germany before it could settle in and establish intercontinental capabilities.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
51786 posts
Posted on 1/28/24 at 1:03 pm to
quote:

Hitler wouldn’t have come after the U.S. mainland.


I disagree. Hitler always saw the US as an eventual enemy, anyone who has studied Hitler will tell you that. The key here is that we're introducing the Nazis having nukes and bombers capable of delivering them in early 1940 and what that would be likely to change (and the domino effect thereafter).

quote:

Germany didn’t have the population to hold territory far outside of Europe.


Agreed, but Hitler wasn't focused on holding and fortifying his gains nearly as much as he was focused on continuing to conquer. That would likely bite him in the arse eventually, unless he wholesale slaughtered entire conquered populations (similar to what we saw with his attempt to exterminate the Jews).

quote:

He was losing a 2 front war, had he acquired a nuke Moscow would have been target 1. Get Russia out of the way and then nuke London.


He didn't go after the Soviet Union until after the Blitz had been well under way (the Blitz began in 1940, Hitler didn't invade Russia until almost a year and a half later). If he has an active aerial bombardment of an enemy capital already going on, he's far more likely to unleash his new superweapon there (especially as it's closer) than using it to start a 2nd front. He would absolutely have used it on Moscow the moment he thought the UK was beaten, he loathed communism so Moscow would have been an eventuality. He may even have made London and Moscow his version of Nagasaki and Hiroshima (bombing them just days apart) in order to frighten them into submission.

Remember, at this time no one had seen anything even close to what Fat Man and Little Boy could do. Unleashing those had devastating emotional impacts even after years of brutal war, imagine how much bigger that impact would have been had they been dropped at the beginning and then those drops were on two national capitols.

quote:

That would have brought the Allies to the table to negotiate. US would have likely pulled out and let Europe deal with it and like I said the Cold War would have eventually been the US and German empire instead of US and USSR.


I disagree. The US population was still hungover from WWI (no one wanted to get into "another war in Europe") and was reeling from the Great Depression. The desire to remain out of the war with was incredibly high, until Pearl Harbor in December 1941. Were a nuke to be dropped on London in 1940 and then another dropped on Moscow shortly thereafter (or even if Moscow was first), that likely would have pushed the US population further into their desire for isolationism. Hitler would likely have entertained them, but it would have lasted only until Hitler was ready to break it (see also: agreements with the USSR and Poland).

quote:

US probably agrees to end hostilities with Germany if Germany agrees to let UK and France remain independent outside of their control.


Why would Germany agree to that? Hitler's goal was to take over the whole of Europe to create an Aryan eutopia. He wasn't going to take over a country just let it go, especially if he's dealing from the overwhelmingly strong stance of being the only country in the world to have (and use) nukes.

The US wouldn't have been engaged in hostilities at that time. Remember the scenario, this is 1940 and Hitler has nukes. The US was secretly sending weapons and supplies to the UK in 1940 but would not be engaging in military conflict until after Pearl Harbor. If Germany had (and used) nukes in 1940, Pearl Harbor may not have even happened in 1941.

Perhaps the ocean would have been a large enough barrier, but considering his thoughts on the US I think Hitler eventually rips up any nonaggression pact with the US, especially if he hopscotched his way to at least Greenland.
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