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Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:20 am to Tiger1242
Without trade or the desire to gain more of something there would have been far less motivation for wars and disease would not have been as widespread.
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:23 am to eScott
quote:Think about it...why do wars occur? Why have they always occurred? Someone wanted more land so they can get access to a warm water port, a straight, a sea, a trade route... Trade and the desire to obtain more goods has always been what fuels war.
War easy
ETA: of course there are exceptions. Some people were/are just evil without restrain.
This post was edited on 6/29/15 at 9:26 am
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:23 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
Without trade or the desire to gain more of something
Meh - I think this is poor analysis - no question that desire and greed have triggered a number of wars, but I think it is clear that nations that have well-established trading relationships with each other rarely go to war - and if they do, they anguish over the impact of the war on that trade.
This post was edited on 6/29/15 at 9:24 am
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:25 am to Tiger1242
quote:
What has had more impact on history: war, trade, or disease? by Tiger1242
Out of that list, I'd say trade. Countless wars were fought in advance of trade, and trade even caused the spread of disease.
However, my list would question which of money/power, religion/power, technology, or mere chance had greater impact on our history.
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:27 am to eScott
quote:
War easy
Do you realize how many people have been annihilated from disease? Entire populations, significant leaders/kings, etc.
It might be war, but its not "easy".
The black death/plague took out 75-200 million people. 30-60% of Europe's population. Some say it reduced the world's population by 350-400 million.
And that's just one pandemic.
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:27 am to Tiger1242
Tell us what you think, Tiger1242. Share your opinion.
My opinion is that trade has had the most impact. Because trade has the potential to accelerate the other two factors and not vice-versa.
My opinion is that trade has had the most impact. Because trade has the potential to accelerate the other two factors and not vice-versa.
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:27 am to Tiger1242
quote:
What has had more impact on history: war, trade, or disease?
These things tend to go hand-in-hand so it is difficult to separate them. For example, trade involves the movement of people, and the movement of people facilitates the spread of disease. Trade is also a primary motivation for war, which of course, promotes the spread of disease.
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:29 am to Putty
quote:
Out of that list, I'd say trade. Countless wars were fought in advance of trade, and trade even caused the spread of disease.
I agree with this. Trade is one of the biggest reasons for the international spread of disease and is a common theme in the causation of war.
Religion is definitely in there too.
This post was edited on 6/29/15 at 9:31 am
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:30 am to bayoubengals88
quote:
Without trade or the desire to gain more of something there would have been far less motivation for wars and disease would not have been as widespread.
Doesn't this point conflate cause with effect? The fact that one thing caused another doesn't necessarily mean the first thing has bigger effects than the second thing on some outcome.
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:39 am to TxTiger82
If you define "historical impact" as "historical change," the answer is either disease or war.
Trade could be considered to be the most stabilizing force in history. Stabilization is the antithesis to change. Analytically, we would therefore say that trade has a negative direct effect on "historical change."
Trade also causes disease and war. Disease and war cause historical change. Thus, trade has a positive indirect effect on historical change through disease and war.
However, it is possible that this positive indirect effect is actually outweighed by the negative direct effect, so that trade has a net stabilizing influence despite the fact that it causes both disease and war.
The conclusion in such a scenario would be that disease and war have a bigger impact on historical change than trade.
Trade could be considered to be the most stabilizing force in history. Stabilization is the antithesis to change. Analytically, we would therefore say that trade has a negative direct effect on "historical change."
Trade also causes disease and war. Disease and war cause historical change. Thus, trade has a positive indirect effect on historical change through disease and war.
However, it is possible that this positive indirect effect is actually outweighed by the negative direct effect, so that trade has a net stabilizing influence despite the fact that it causes both disease and war.
The conclusion in such a scenario would be that disease and war have a bigger impact on historical change than trade.
This post was edited on 6/29/15 at 9:54 am
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:49 am to Tiger1242
Trade... Which has lead to more war and disease
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:55 am to SpqrTiger
quote:
Tell us what you think
It's tough but I think I'll have to say disease.
I hate admitting that because I love history and like to think that people's actions and victories have made such an influence over the world, but I think disease wins.
Just looking back in history, beyond the obvious plagues and mass diseases (small pox, yellow fever, Black Plague, the flue that devastated Carthage).
Look at specific people: for example Marcus Aurelius died in his 50's because of disease, which made Commodus emperor far too young. Maybe if that hadn't happened Commodus doesn't become completely evil.
They are all important, but I think I have to concede to disease having the biggest impact
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:56 am to TROLA
quote:
Trade
But as I have illustrated, trade contributes to both stabilization and change. If one thinks of "impact" in terms of change, this means trade has a negative effect on change. If one thinks of "impact" in terms of magnitude of effects (positive or negative), the effects of trade probably wash out, to a certain extent. Either way, I'm going with war and/or disease. Probably disease.
The REALLY interesting part, of course, is whether historical change leads to trade. I would suggest that it does. Thus, the entire exercise suffers from a problem of endogeneity.
This post was edited on 6/29/15 at 9:58 am
Posted on 6/29/15 at 9:57 am to Tiger1242
quote:
I think I have to concede to disease having the biggest impact
Can you elaborate on what you mean by impact?
Posted on 6/29/15 at 10:16 am to Tiger1242
Disease. Specifically, the Mosquito. The diseases that they carry have killed something like 1 in 3 people who have ever lived. Without them, our population would be more out of control than it is now, especially in the Third World.
Posted on 6/29/15 at 11:23 am to TxTiger82
impact = largest influence on the history of the world/civilization.
Which of them has shaped the way we live and the way we got to where we are the most
Which of them has shaped the way we live and the way we got to where we are the most
Posted on 6/29/15 at 11:28 am to Tiger1242
War.
War, rebellion, and revolution are what shape nations and governments, and occupation and administration of conquered territories caused/causes population assimilation. War can either bolster economies (America in WWI) or collapse them (most of Europe after WWI), and it has led to myriad technological advancements. Throughout history, most leaders were military dictators, victors, or people whose views and outlook were shaped by war.
Without the American Revolution you don't get the United States. Without the Russian Revolution and resulting Civil War there's no Soviet Union. Both World Wars literally redrew the map of most of the globe.
And that's just within the last 250 years.
War, rebellion, and revolution are what shape nations and governments, and occupation and administration of conquered territories caused/causes population assimilation. War can either bolster economies (America in WWI) or collapse them (most of Europe after WWI), and it has led to myriad technological advancements. Throughout history, most leaders were military dictators, victors, or people whose views and outlook were shaped by war.
Without the American Revolution you don't get the United States. Without the Russian Revolution and resulting Civil War there's no Soviet Union. Both World Wars literally redrew the map of most of the globe.
And that's just within the last 250 years.
This post was edited on 6/29/15 at 11:33 am
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