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Started By
Message
re: USW strike...** POSSIBLE END IN SIGHT **
Posted on 2/2/15 at 2:30 pm to jimjackandjose
Posted on 2/2/15 at 2:30 pm to jimjackandjose
quote:
Also, my understanding is the USW wants the workers to be paid for their fatigue days. Has nothing to do with the workforce being tired and wanting a day off every now and then.
I thought it had more to do with workers getting paid straight time their first 8 hours on Saturday after being forced to take off on their regular scheduled shift.
1
Posted on 2/2/15 at 2:48 pm to LSU0358
Yes but these aren't operators, they are steel workers.
This post was edited on 2/2/15 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 2/2/15 at 3:02 pm to GREENHEAD22
The operators at most of these plants are in the United Steel Workers Union.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 3:22 pm to JonTheTigerFan
I'm glad my plant isn't union.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 3:50 pm to JonTheTigerFan
What is regularly scheduled about working 14 days in a row? Why not just pay everyone OT every time they are in the plant.
I beliebe....The API standard drove the 14th day off... Surprised OSHA hasnt fully adopted it yet.
I beliebe....The API standard drove the 14th day off... Surprised OSHA hasnt fully adopted it yet.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 3:58 pm to jimjackandjose
We follow fatigue management guidelines. After working 7 days consecutive you have to have 36 hours to "reset". There are exceptions for turnarounds . It's 13 consecutive then. After 7 days I'm ready for a day off anyway.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 4:06 pm to jimjackandjose
I was referring to employees who are on a 5-8's schedule who would normally be paid overtime on Saturday and Sunday. If they're on turnaround, and management forces them to take off during the week, the first 8 hours Saturday are paid at straight time. Most contractors even pay overtime after 40 hours. I guess the solution could be only making wage earners take off on Saturday or Sunday. That, however, would be a pain in the arse when at least 80% of your mechanical supervisors on turnaround are wage earners. Backfilling for all those positions would be a nightmare.
As for the API standard, it was meant for controllers and people who directly work with the operation of the plants. It specifically excludes most mechanical employees but management where you work has decided to adopt it for everyone. I don't really have a problem with it. I think people will get used to it eventually and it will be a non issue.
As for the API standard, it was meant for controllers and people who directly work with the operation of the plants. It specifically excludes most mechanical employees but management where you work has decided to adopt it for everyone. I don't really have a problem with it. I think people will get used to it eventually and it will be a non issue.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 5:18 pm to shiftworker
quote:
2. You can work next to zombies who have lost most of their critical thinking due to fatigue if you like. I'd rather have a semi rested crew around me at least. I like myself too much to work that tired.
You think one day off for a guy that has worked 14 days/nights straight or more rebalances the scales for fatigue? If that's the argument, it's a specious one at best.
It's a giant money saver for the refiners to avoid 7th days, and a potential dues generator for the union. But forcing a guy that doesn't want to be there so you can send a guy that wants to be there home is bad for morale.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 5:36 pm to CollegeFBRules
That one day of rest makes a huge difference.
Allows time for sex and sleep. Peole return with much less stress
Allows time for sex and sleep. Peole return with much less stress
Posted on 2/2/15 at 5:44 pm to jimjackandjose
quote:
That one day of rest makes a huge difference. Allows time for sex and sleep. Peole return with much less stress
Less stress, not really. But that day off is nice to have.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 5:45 pm to jimjackandjose
Just to make sure im keeping this union story straight
The argument in the last few pages from
1 people die all the time trying to supply everyone with solo cups for beer cup
2 fatigue is causing unsafe enviroments and management doesnt care we are tired and work 36 days in a row
To 3. Management doesnt train on sfety and just dumps newbies who arent qualified into the field to meet the union supported democratic govt demographic requiremets
To 4. oilmen are too dumb to understand pensions so the union is needed to think for them
To 5. we lose money when oil companies make us rest on the 14th day of consecutive work to keep everyone safer.
And as paul harvey would say "and that folks, is the rest Of the story"
The argument in the last few pages from
1 people die all the time trying to supply everyone with solo cups for beer cup
2 fatigue is causing unsafe enviroments and management doesnt care we are tired and work 36 days in a row
To 3. Management doesnt train on sfety and just dumps newbies who arent qualified into the field to meet the union supported democratic govt demographic requiremets
To 4. oilmen are too dumb to understand pensions so the union is needed to think for them
To 5. we lose money when oil companies make us rest on the 14th day of consecutive work to keep everyone safer.
And as paul harvey would say "and that folks, is the rest Of the story"
This post was edited on 2/2/15 at 5:46 pm
Posted on 2/2/15 at 5:47 pm to jimjackandjose
quote:
Posted by jimjackandjose
You have dedicated a lot of you recent time to a topic that has no bearing on you.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 5:48 pm to fightin tigers
How did you figure that?
Look at my posts time stamps.
Look at my posts time stamps.
This post was edited on 2/2/15 at 5:50 pm
Posted on 2/2/15 at 5:50 pm to jimjackandjose
quote:
How did you figure that?
Just looking at how long you have been following the thread and your general lack of knowledge on the subject.
People directly effected, on both sides, know the unions argument.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 5:53 pm to fightin tigers
If u followed you would see all of those arguments presented.
Ive stated what in my opinion unions should do to make themseles relevant again. This fight they are picking isnt worth the fight
People directly affected, have a choice
Ive stated what in my opinion unions should do to make themseles relevant again. This fight they are picking isnt worth the fight
People directly affected, have a choice
Posted on 2/2/15 at 5:59 pm to jimjackandjose
quote:
Ive stated what in my opinion unions should do to make themseles relevant again. This fight they are picking isnt worth the fight
They seem pretty relevant right now, no? They have managed to keep benefits for their members that have been stripped from many other professions.
Maybe I am seeing it wrong.
Posted on 2/2/15 at 6:09 pm to fightin tigers
Let's just say I know JJJ and he knows more than 95% of the people in this thread
Posted on 2/2/15 at 6:14 pm to TulaneUVA
quote:
Let's just say I know JJJ and he knows more than 95% of the people in this thread
He doesn't seem to understand what is lost with fatigue days and how they are being manipulated.
Although, he does seem to have solid knowledge of union relations
Posted on 2/2/15 at 6:18 pm to fightin tigers
If you are referring to pensions prograns that were created prior to the mass opportunity in 401 and roth ira program which put the responsibility on the employee vs the company, yet still offer generous matches....then i refer you to the city of detroit and the american auto industry as exhibit 1b.
I planned my retirement assuming no govt or company would have a hold over me in that manner
I planned my retirement assuming no govt or company would have a hold over me in that manner
Posted on 2/2/15 at 6:21 pm to jimjackandjose
quote:
If you are referring to pensions prograns that were created prior to the mass opportunity in 401 and roth ira program which put the responsibility on the employee vs the company
No, not referring to those at all. I would imagine those will be a thing of the past before long.
quote:
planned my retirement assuming no govt or company would have a hold over me in that manner
Same here. Honestly, I hear little about pensions when talking to hourly employees about retirement. They pretty much watch their 401k's and max them as early as possible.
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