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Message
re: U.S. considering using force to protect Syrian rebels hit by Russia
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:32 am to El Magnifico
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:32 am to El Magnifico
quote:
What happened to the American tradition of non-interventionism?
It died about 50-75 years ago.
But I don't see how we're supporting terrorists?
0
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:32 am to LucasP
quote:
wanna grab a gun and go frick shite up. I feel the perfect mix of fear, patriotism and anger. Well done.
I think you misread me. I'm not calling for war. In fact, I said war would be a disaster. I'm just saying there are no good options for the US where things turn out in the Middle East that are good for our interests. We've already shite the bed over there and now we just have to accept it.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:35 am to Breesus
quote:
You do realize the red scare and the cold war are over right?
It's a damn shame too, what a time to be alive
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:36 am to El Magnifico
quote:
What happened to the American tradition of non-interventionism?
Maybe ask Europeans who were alive in the 1930's or maybe even those who lived in China, Korea, etc. in the '30s also? Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:37 am to Breesus
quote:
This option is far easier than option 1 but do not fool yourself into thinking this is a good thing for the US either.
Not one person in six pages can articulate this point. It's just Russia Bad. America Good.
I just laid out a number of reasons why a middle east dominated by a Russia/Syria/Iran axis is not a good thing. And it's far more comprehensive than just "Russia bad, America good". Do you care to comment on the points I brought up?
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:37 am to Ritual76
quote:
Protect Syrian Rebels aka ISIS. Get the frick out and quit interveining!!
The rebels are fighting ISIS.
Its a three way mess.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:37 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
StraightCashHomey21
If you think Syria is the "End Game" for Russia, you are wrong. Putin has openly expressed his desire to restore the Soviet era sphere of Russian influence. If the USA allows Putin to push us out of Syria, pro-russian parties in Eastern Europe will gain strength.
This post was edited on 10/2/15 at 9:39 am
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:39 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:
If you think Syria is the "End Game" for Russia, you are wrong. Putin has openly expressed his desire to restore the Soviet era sphere of Russian influence. If the USA allows Putin to push out of Syria, pro-russian parties in Eastern Europe will gain strength.
please tell me what other countries in the ME will Russia just push its way into. O wait we have bases or influence in almost all of them.
As for Eastern Europe. He invades the wrong country than its war with NATO, which he would not win.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:40 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
I just laid out a number of reasons why a middle east dominated by a Russia/Syria/Iran axis is not a good thing.
I would be willing to bet the house on your #1 being a fricking nightmare. #2-4 would/will lead to more war. No way around it.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:40 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:
If you think Syria is the "End Game" for Russia, you are wrong. Putin has openly expressed his desire to restore the Soviet era sphere of Russian influence
Oh no!!!! Time to invade and conquer eastern Europe to ensure that we are the ones who control them and not Putin. frick allowing countries and governments to work things out. America will tell the world how to think feel and live!
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:41 am to Breesus
Who said we should invade Eastern Europe?
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:43 am to Breesus
quote:
frick allowing countries and governments to work things out.
How is Russia annexing countries in E. Europe "allowing countries and govts to work things out" when said countries were defenseless?
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:44 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
I think you misread me.
I think I got you, I was just making a comment about your inflammatory language. You seem stuck in the Top Gun era where we can't have mutual interests with Russia or China (or anyone really).
The economy is more global now so we do share some benefits with Russia from a stable middle east. And like I said, if it were up to me we'd leave that shite hole to the comrades and spend our time and effort developing technologies to make oil obsolete and the entire area impotent.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:44 am to Spaceman Spiff
quote:
How is Russia annexing countries in E. Europe "allowing countries and govts to work things out" when said countries were defenseless?
Why is it America's job to go to every defenseless country and ensure no outside government takes it over?
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:45 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:
If you think Syria is the "End Game" for Russia, you are wrong. Putin has openly expressed his desire to restore the Soviet era sphere of Russian influence. If the USA allows Putin to push out of Syria, pro-russian parties in Eastern Europe will gain strength.
You bring up a good point with Russian aspirations of regaining what it lost when the Soviet Union collapsed. While I don't think it's an issue in the near term, I do think it will become a very real issue in the long term. As things stand right now, Putin believes, rightfully so, that he's got free reign to do whatever he wants. That's why Russian forces are marshaling in Syria today. If he is successful in the Middle East and establishes the Russia/Syria/Iran axis there that becomes the dominate force in the region, this will only serve to embolden him for later on down the road turning his attention to Eastern Europe.
And to be honest, between our own force cutbacks in Europe and the cutbacks in the European NATO members, right now today there's not a lot standing in his way from doing anything he wants to do in Europe.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:46 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
As for Eastern Europe. He invades the wrong country than its war with NATO, which he would not win.
There are ways to create proxy states without direct invasion. That is what the Ukraine was until their pro-EU revolution.
The moment the EU and US show they are politically weaker than Russia, we will see those Pro-Russian parties elected to higher offices as the local populace loses faith.
As far as the ME goes, I agree with Darth's assessment.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:46 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
That's why Russian forces are marshaling in Syria today.
Don't forget they are in Iraq, too.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 9:57 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
please tell me what other countries in the ME will Russia just push its way into. O wait we have bases or influence in almost all of them.
Besides Syria? Iraq. Iraq is a failed state as it stands today. The current government's fate was sealed the day we pulled out virtually all our forces. That's why ISIS has been able to set up shop over a huge swath of the country. Once Russia, Syria, and Iran are done with the rebels in Syria, they'll turn their full attention to ISIS in Iraq. In fact, they're already in Iraq today. They will crush ISIS in Iraq and while they're at it, they'll do away the Iraq government we fought so hard to set up while we were there. The only thing I'm not sure of is if they'll allow any entity named Iraq to remain or if they'll just partition Iraq wholly up among themselves. But even if they allow some form of Iraq to remain, it will be nothing more than a puppet of Iran.
quote:
As for Eastern Europe. He invades the wrong country than its war with NATO, which he would not win.
The 90's are long gone. Russia has not quite regained the military strength that it had in the 80's. But it's not far from it. And while Russia has spent the last decade or so rearming and modernizing it's military, NATO (including the US) have been cutting back their own forces. for all intents and purposes, western Europe is all but disarmed. Even the US forces permanently based in Europe are pathetically weak. In all of Europe the only ground forces left is one airborne brigade in Italy and one armored cav regiment in Germany. And that cav regiment doesn't even have any tanks.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 10:00 am to Breesus
quote:
You do realize the red scare and the cold war are over right?
That's what the KGB wanted you to think, to lull you to sleep while they installed a Marxist they groomed to take the reins in America and degrade our economy, military, and capacity for independent, rational thought, which has been a rousing success.
Posted on 10/2/15 at 10:02 am to Cooter Davenport
quote:
That's what the KGB wanted you to think, to lull you to sleep while they installed a Marxist they groomed to take the reins in America and degrade our economy, military, and capacity for independent, rational thought, which has been a rousing success.
they prefer FSB now
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