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re: US Capitol Building breached - peaceful protestors take control of both chambers
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:21 pm to Logician
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:21 pm to Logician
quote:
there are posters in this very thread that still believe in russian collusion, that the 2016 was lost to trump because of it, and spent the past 4 years REEEEing about it nonstop
I don't understand how people can be so concerned with foreign interference in American elections, then 4 years later ignore everyone that points out voting irregularities.
This kind of reaction to elections are going to continue until we can build up trust in the process again.
1
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:21 pm to Logician
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:21 pm to Chucktown_Badger
quote:
It's funny how the whole fraud thing is that the acts are 100% by "the other guys only"
Feel free to link me to some of these major vote dumps benefitting republicans. I'm open to have my mind changed.
quote:
Trump's been building the foundation for months and his base took it hook line and sinker. Hell, based on the polling going in he should've lost by way more.
You trust the polls still. Oh boy
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:22 pm to LNCHBOX
Can someone give me a run down of what happened today? TYFYS
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:22 pm to Chucktown_Badger
quote:
Trump's been building the foundation for months
It didn't take a crystal ball to understand the implications of judicial and bureaucratic-implemented mail in voting in areas ill equipped to properly regulate that sort of system.
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:23 pm to Broski
quote:
Yep, but the problem is that no one on either side of the political spectrum actually wants fair elections, they just want to use unfair elections as an excuse for why their candidate lost.
Let's take that away from them. Let's improve our election process to prevent interference from any entities (foreign or domestic) and enable an auditable process nationwide.
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:23 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
And now, they'll talk about this for months and months and beyond, and the people who were gaslit during the Summer will grow even more fatigued and we'll do it again.
There are no unifying institutions, that's the problem.
Here is my blunt diagnosis of what is happening in this country.
Black people are angry. And their anger is not unjustified. There is no question that blacks, as a group, have suffered the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow and invidious treatment. They feel as if they are being deprived of the opportunity for wealth and freedom and recognition and happiness. They want more wealth and opportunity.
But blacks are not the only angry - or righteously angry - people in this country. There is a broad swath of middle class and poor whites who feel left behind by society and abandoned by the ruling elite. They have lost their jobs and their standing and their hope in a rapidly evolving global market with swiftly changing social mores. They feel silenced and persecuted and shunned.
Standing between these two enraged factions is a third, which I think of as well-intentioned but naive dupes. They fail to grasp that all of human history, since the dawn of our formidable intelligence, has been an elaborate competition for resources. In their ignorance, they side with one group or the other based on feeling, emotion, sympathy, rhetoric, or misguided principle. They are manipulated by the politicians and the media, who require their votes and spending power to accomplish their agendas.
So the question becomes: how does society fairly allocate finite resources (finite wealth, finite opportunity, finite jobs, finite acclaim, etc.) amongst these competing contenders? The best answer- and the one that had really undergirded the classic American dream - is merit. People should be rewarded based on their talent and hard work and character, irrespective of race or creed or sexual orientation or other arbitrary factors. Best of all, this form of wealth allocation, based on merit, is open to all groups. By definition, it excludes no one. And the prerequisite for a functioning meritocracy is a stable civilization operating under the rule of law.
There was a time in the not too distant past when acceptance of a meritocratic vision was widespread. But no longer. The American meritocracy was never perfect, could never be perfect because it was administered by mortals, but it was better than all real alternatives. But certain sects grew impatient with meritocracy, and rather than refining it or correcting it, now seek to supplant it entirely with a system of wealth redistribution that elevates GROUP identity above individual identity. The blacks are the noble and blameless aggrieved, who are entitled to compensation (in the form of various wealth distribution mechanisms) by virtue of their race's unrequited toil and oppression. Whites are the sinners, who must confess and atone by yielding up the spoils of their unearned privilege. Women are the wise and overlooked heirs of insight. Men are crass plunderers. And so on. All nuance is lost. All individuality is subsumed. People becomes proxies for their tribes.
This tribal, collective model of wealth redistribution is fatal. Because on its FACE, by definition, it is exclusionary. Only one group can prevail. Individual merit is meaningless. Tribes battle for supremacy in a zero sum game. And without merit enforced by a rule of law to mediate the endless disputes over the allocation of resources, there is nothing left to determine the outcome but naked political and physical and economic force. And that is where the country is drifting: towards force and violence. One set of lunatics loot. Another set storms.
And not one of these craven fools who are elected to lead us has the courage to stand up and speak the truth. Not one has the decency and the fortitude to defend reason or objectivity or merit. Not one media outlet has the temerity to speak fact and temperance and moderation. Instead, all of them - politicians and media alike - condone and pander and manipulate and inflame, stoking the war to suit their own ambitions.
It disgusts me. It feels hopeless. As a country, we must return to to the lights of reason and the universal dream of individual success based on character.
This was a long post. I had nowhere else to write it, I suppose. My apologies
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:23 pm to dewster
quote:
then 4 years later ignore everyone that points out voting irregularities.
they weren't ignored
there were recounts, audits, over 60 court cases in varying courts in multiples states - some by Trump-appointed judges - including the Supreme Court.
They revealed jack and shite in the way of fraud.
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:24 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
FIFY. Do you really need to be shown how many times Biden for example has "contradicted" himself?
No matter what I say you will try to find some bullshite to justify it, but Trump literally created what is going on right now. How? Just go read his twitter feed from days ago.
Look at these peaceful people.
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:24 pm to TDsngumbo
You support terrorism. Noted.
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:24 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
It makes you impossible to take seriously when you say stiff like this.
The difference between us I guess is that I see his statements for how absurd they are (often to the point of outright laughter) and you see them as factual despite, well, the fact that they're not.
This post was edited on 1/6/21 at 4:25 pm
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:25 pm to OweO
quote:
No matter what I say you will try to find some bullshite to justify it,
deflect away, wheels. deflect away.
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:25 pm to dewster
quote:
But it's absurd to dismiss anyone that questions the integrity of our election as a projection of Trump's rhetoric
This. I started a thread last night about this. We didn't know the results of our presidential election and multiple congressional races weeks after election day. Compare our elections to Brazil, a country poorer and less developed than us and it's understandable why many people (myself included) have zero faith in our electoral system.
quote:
Brazil is not a small country. It is the fifth most-populous nation on the planet. Although its population is somewhat smaller than the U.S.’s (330 million to 210 million), its mandatory voting law, automatic registration, and 16-year-old voting age means the number of ballots to be counted is quite similar (105 million votes in Brazil’s 2018 presidential election compared to 130 million votes in the 2016 U.S. presidential election). And on the same date of its national elections, it, too, holds gubernatorial and Congressional elections in its twenty-seven states.
And yet Brazil — a much poorer and less technologically advanced country than the U.S., with a much shorter history of democracy — holds seamless, quick vote counts about which very few people harbor doubts. The elections are held on a Sunday, to ensure as many people as possible do not have work obligations to prevent voting, and polls close at 6:00 p.m.
For the 2018 presidential run-off election that led to Jair Bolsonaro’s victory, 90% of all votes were counted and the results released by 6:00 p.m. on the day of the election: the time the last state closed its polls. The full vote tally was available within a couple of hours after that. The same was true of the first-round voting held three weeks earlier — which also included races for governor, Senator and Congress in all the states: full vote totals were released by computer shortly after the polls closed and few had any doubts about their accuracy and legitimacy.
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:25 pm to Chucktown_Badger
quote:
The difference between us I guess is that I see his statements for how absurd they are (often to the point of outright laughter) and you see them as factual despite, well, the fact that they're not.
You still believe the polls, forgive me for not taking what you consider to be factual as factual.
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:26 pm to MorbidTheClown
are we now saying antifa did this?
This post was edited on 1/6/21 at 4:26 pm
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:26 pm to dewster
quote:
I think we (American public) are justified in demanding an auditable election process.
The constitution allows for it being auditable....all of which trump tried and all of which didn't help him in any way. I actually think Biden ended up with a few more votes after the Wisconsin recount
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:26 pm to dewster
Illegal harvesting of mail in ballots is what changed the election, and it’s almost impossible to prove, especially when Democrats are good at it. Do people really think the person that got paid to fill out a ballot a certain way is going to admit it?
Look up what happened in 2018 Southern California congressional races. A bunch of R’s lost the same way Trump did. Mind you certain ballot harvesting activities are legal in California. Republicans figured out the game and ran their own ballot harvesting this year and won back several of the seats
Look up what happened in 2018 Southern California congressional races. A bunch of R’s lost the same way Trump did. Mind you certain ballot harvesting activities are legal in California. Republicans figured out the game and ran their own ballot harvesting this year and won back several of the seats
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:27 pm to OweO
quote:I won't pretend that Trump hasn't inadvertently thrown some gas on the fire, but acting like this is exclusively due to Trump and not a combination of many factors spanning many years is complete foolishness.
but Trump literally created what is going on right now.
Trump could have handled this better, no doubt, but call a segment of the population neo-nazi racists who want to kill all of the minorities among other heinous shite for more than 4 years straight, and what do you think their opinion will be? Reasonable? Peaceful? Perhaps vengeful?
This shite is not justifiable mind you, nor am I attempting to do so. Protesting is fine, breaking in is not. I'm just elaborating on a little bit of what contributed to this in the grand scheme.
This post was edited on 1/6/21 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:28 pm to tgr4ever
quote:
are we now saying antifa did this?
I mentioned it earlier, but evidently that's what Alex Jones is saying.. So that's probably where they are getting this from.
People will believe anything.
Posted on 1/6/21 at 4:29 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It didn't take a crystal ball to understand the implications of judicial and bureaucratic-implemented mail in voting in areas ill equipped to properly regulate that sort of system.
Amazing how NYC kicked out 200k mail in ballots during the DNC primary, but we haven't heard the first peep about rejecting any for the national election.
Hell, NV was accepting ballots with no signature at all and was separating the envelopes from the ballots so they couldn't trace the postmark date
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