re: Ukraine say U.S. tanks are ineffective and armor is useless

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Neither the Russians nor Ukrainians have been able to figure out how to pull it off though.

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Because in this war you can’t they are now using ATVs and dirt bike because armor equipment is easy to target and destroy between the mines, drones, artillery, and anti tank missiles.

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Ukraine isn't getting the same tank you find in US units. Lot of differences.

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From what I understand, they’re getting the export version (less armor protection) of the M1A1 which is the Abrams I served on over 30 years ago.

Its kinda dumb to rely on tanks when the opposing air force has air superiority; but hey lets blame the tanks.

The kills are coming from artillery rounds, and ATGMs.

Cool

Tanks in general are obsolete. There is no amount of protection that can be given to a tank that will save it from a proper drone strike. These things are rolling 3 million dollar coffins begging for a 10,000 dollar drone to come and blow the turret sky high. The war in Ukraine will be won by drones, missiles and artillery. Not tanks, planes and infantry assaults.

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Because in this war you can’t they are now using ATVs and dirt bike because armor equipment is easy to target and destroy between the mines, drones, artillery, and anti tank missiles.

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Tanks have always, like everything else on the battlefield, been vulnerable to destruction. The first major use of tanks on a battlefield was at the Battle of Cambrai in Nov. 1917. The British used almost 500 tanks in this battle. Of that 500, 180 were lost even though most German soldiers had never seen a tank. By early 1918, the Germans were knocking out British tanks on a regular basis. Tanks have always been vulnerable to mines, artillery, and anti-tank missiles. Hell, in WWII, the Germans knocked out thousands of Allied tanks with panzerfausts.

Tanks being vulnerable isn’t anything unique or new. That’s why they have to be used with infantry and cavalry with artillery backup.

Cavalry screens and performs recon for the main force, identifying minefields, strongpoints, and enemy positions for the main force to attack. In the attack, tanks provide maneuver and firepower to the infantry while the infantry protects the tanks from anti-tank teams. And the artillery supports them all with fires on enemy positions and counter-battery fire on the enemy’s artillery. You also have mine tanks and combat engineers to deal with mines. This was true in 1945 and is just as true in 2024. But it takes the training and logistics to pull it off. Neither Russia nor Ukraine have either.

Really the only thing that’s new in this war is drones. That will require development of new countermeasures. But that’s the nature of warfare. One side develops some new weapon and the other side develops a countermeasure.

Not to mention the US tried to tell them that they didn't have the logistics support to keep Abrams from breaking down. That's why there was so much back and forth on will they get them or not. Probably the reason they got so few of them too. They just don't ha e the support element needed to make them a viable threat outside of US soldiers operating them.

Not to mention that every single type of tank that has been put on the ground in Ukraine for either side has shown that they're very vulnerable to this new drone warfare. That's what is eating the tank's lunch in Ukraine. Both sides have gone through so much of their ATGM supply they had to innovate and rig up these FPV drones and they're a game changer.

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I’ve said it over and over again.

The U.S. military are making the same mistakes the Nazi made in WW2. Focusing more on creating the new most advance that cost way more to produce, harder to maintain, more complicated to use, and not as durable.


While the Soviet and U.S. at the time cracked out euipment like no tomorrow by being simple but effective.

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Do you think we have less tanks than most of the known world?

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Look two posts up from yours.

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sorry baw, as soon as I saw the title I posted that because before reading further I knew we have a resident expert