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re: Tying New Concrete to an Existing Foundation - Yes or No?

Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:30 pm to
Posted by Croacka
Denham Springs
Member since Dec 2008
61448 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:30 pm to
you really don't even need wire mesh in the patio slab


its probably not gonna stop it from cracking anyway
Posted by Rohan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2005
1587 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:32 pm to
I personally don't know crap about this, but I am adding the exact same size patio. I had three concrete guys out yesterday for bids and all three said they would tie it to my slab.
Posted by ForeverLSU02
Albany
Member since Jun 2007
52307 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

So you're going to anchor the columns into a 4 inch slab?
That's probably why my FIL suggested I use a 6" slab.
Posted by dillpickleLSU
Philadelphia, PA
Member since Oct 2005
26298 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:34 pm to
How about a 3 inch slab with a 6 inch footing around the edge?
Posted by ForeverLSU02
Albany
Member since Jun 2007
52307 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:36 pm to
quote:

How about a 3 inch slab with a 6 inch footing around the edge?
How wide should the footing be?
Posted by fishfighter
RIP
Member since Apr 2008
40026 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:36 pm to
OP, just make sure you have a footing all around the slab. The footings should be no less the 12" wide and 12" deep. If you are planning to build on top and set post on the corners, use rebar in all footings, wire mess everywhere else. Oh, a 4" slab is fine. Also don't forget to spray for termites before pouring the slab. That is a must here in Louisiana.
Posted by ForeverLSU02
Albany
Member since Jun 2007
52307 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:37 pm to
quote:

fishfighter
Posted by dillpickleLSU
Philadelphia, PA
Member since Oct 2005
26298 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:38 pm to
a 6" footing should be fine. 1 foot wide....throw a rebar or two in the footing
Posted by GulfCoastPoke
Port of Indecision
Member since Feb 2011
1099 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:39 pm to
Why not make the whole thing 4" and use 12" x 12" block outs (no concrete) where you plan to place columns (later). You could cover the block out with stone or pavers and make it look nice until you're ready to pour. IMO, going thicker across the entire area doesn't make sense just so you have thickness for columns. Also, I'm not sure I'd set columns in 6" of concrete, would probably go much more.

ETA, you could always, instead, do a concrete joint which you could rip out later. in other words, replace my paver/stone idea above with a 12" x 12" joint of concrete.
This post was edited on 6/24/14 at 12:40 pm
Posted by fishfighter
RIP
Member since Apr 2008
40026 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:40 pm to
Reason for the 12" footing is that if you ever want to close in the patio, you can.
Posted by 4WHLN
Drinking at the Cottage Inn
Member since Mar 2013
7611 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:40 pm to
quote:

OP, just make sure you have a footing all around the slab. The footings should be no less the 12" wide and 12" deep. If you are planning to build on top and set post on the corners, use rebar in all footings, wire mess everywhere else. Oh, a 4" slab is fine. Also don't forget to spray for termites before pouring the slab. That is a must here in Louisiana.


This!
You need to have a footing AT LEAST this size if you want to tie a column of any kind into the slab.
Posted by Croacka
Denham Springs
Member since Dec 2008
61448 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:41 pm to
quote:

Also, I'm not sure I'd set columns in 6" of concrete, would probably go much more.


6" is plenty for your typical patio column


uplift will probably be the controlling factor anyway, just make sure it's anchored decent
Posted by PokerPastime
Member since Jan 2009
2453 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:42 pm to
Only reason I would dowel into the existing slab is if you're pouring steps or a step pad because you wouldn't want that to separate from the existing slab with settlement. If there's no elevation change from your back door to the new patio I wouldn't try to tie them together. What everyone else said, 4" thick w/ steel mesh to help prevent cracking in the new patio. If consider digging the perimeter footer a little deeper, 8-10". Get some concrete bricks and break them up into pieces to put under the mesh to keep it off the ground when you pour, but any concrete contractor should know to do this.

Only thing I haven't seem mentioned is make sure you get a termite company to spray the dirt before you pour if its going to abut your existing house.
Posted by ForeverLSU02
Albany
Member since Jun 2007
52307 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:43 pm to
quote:

PokerPastime
Posted by Beef Supreme
Member since Apr 2008
2073 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:45 pm to
Agree with the footings if the columns are to come later. If not then a lot of the advice in here is overkill for a 20x30 pad. 4" is perfect. Rebar is overkill. If you don't want to mess with the wwm and worry about how it's going to sit in the slab you can also pour with fiber reinforced concrete.
Posted by ForeverLSU02
Albany
Member since Jun 2007
52307 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 12:49 pm to
quote:

fiber reinforced concrete.

How much more does this run compared to normal concrete?
Posted by civiltiger07
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2011
14573 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 1:05 pm to
quote:

I guess all those elevated structural slabs designed with one layer of rebar at the center of the slab are hanging on by a wing and a prayer.


Does this slab have beams under it? is so the beams are supporting the slab. I would guarantee that the rebar is not in the center of the beams. The rebar in the slab it just for temperature and shrinkage reinforcement. When rebar is in the center of concrete it is strictly for temperature and shrinkage. What I'm saying is that for a 4" slab all you need is temperature and shrinkage reinforcement, and wire mesh provides that. No need to add #4 rebar because it is just overkill.
Posted by civiltiger07
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2011
14573 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 1:07 pm to
quote:

fiber reinforced concrete


Looks like Shat! if you are covering it with something it not a problem. But the times I've seen this used it looks like you have hairy concrete.
Posted by urinetrouble
Member since Oct 2007
20583 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 1:20 pm to
quote:

Does this slab have beams under it? is so the beams are supporting the slab.


The slab still has to span between the beams.

quote:

I would guarantee that the rebar is not in the center of the beams.


Countless structural slabs have been designed with a single layer of rebar at the center. Where are you getting this from?
Posted by Major Dutch Schaefer
Location: Classified
Member since Nov 2011
35351 posts
Posted on 6/24/14 at 1:28 pm to
quote:

Should I not do 6"?


In the words of Robin Quivers, "four inches is fine."
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