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Message
re: Tornado outbreak, 94 dead, Upwards of 100 unaccounted for search/rescue & cleanup ongoing
Posted on 12/15/21 at 10:26 pm to Roll Tide Ravens
Posted on 12/15/21 at 10:26 pm to Roll Tide Ravens
I'm going to post this because I believe it is a great point and the discussion is warranted.
@AaronRigsbyOSC
@AaronRigsbyOSC
quote:
You all should be more mad, and disgusted at our home engineers and our building code managers for "approving" the safety of these buildings rather than experts not rating EF5. Yes, the Fujita scale is broken. But you are looking beyond the big picture here.
quote:
And I'm all aboard the something needs to change train but holy moly the uproar on Twitter rn is insane
1
Posted on 12/15/21 at 11:02 pm to LegendInMyMind
Do you think a building that can withstand an ef5 tornado would be affordable or even practical?
Hint the answer is not yes.
Hint the answer is not yes.
Posted on 12/15/21 at 11:04 pm to JusTrollin
quote:
Do you think a building that can withstand an ef5 tornado would be affordable or even practical?
Hint the answer is not yes.
That's not the debate I'm starting.
As it stands now Mayfield was an EF4.
Edwardsville, which killed six in a relatively new Amazon warehouse, was an EF3.
I've seen homes withstand an EF3 to the point that they were salvageable with no fatalities.
It doesn't matter with an EF5. That conversation should center around more affordable and accessible shelter. That's the only thing that will save lives.
This post was edited on 12/15/21 at 11:16 pm
Posted on 12/15/21 at 11:04 pm to JusTrollin
Poured concrete. Including the roof.
Not practical.
Not practical.
Posted on 12/15/21 at 11:10 pm to LegendInMyMind
Nm.
This post was edited on 12/15/21 at 11:11 pm
Posted on 12/15/21 at 11:49 pm to Pisco
Glad you have made it somewhat unscathed 
This post was edited on 12/15/21 at 11:56 pm
Posted on 12/16/21 at 12:56 am to JusTrollin
quote:
Do you think a building that can withstand an ef5 tornado would be affordable or even practical?
Thats not what that tweet is about. Its about how structures there werent built well enough to establish an EF5 rating. Basically asking who's signing off on substandard practices.
Also using damage to determine tornado strength is stupid *cough*El Reno was an EF5*cough*
Posted on 12/16/21 at 1:35 am to Duke
So your argument is that we should demand all new housing cost $300/square foot instead of the current $150/square foot. That way a lower percentage of permanent structures will be destroyed. And the people in them will have a higher chance of surviving.
But a much lower percentage of people will be able to afford to buy and live in a new house, and more will live in mobile units. Not many people in Kentucky, or anywhere that tornados occur regularly, can afford $300-500k homes.
A question for you weather guys that follow this all the time. What is the percentage of people that are killed in tornados are killed in permanent fixed housing units versus in mobile units (mobile homes and travel trailers)?
I don’t know the exact answer, but I do know that if you mandate construction that people can’t afford (and the housing market is already at the top of a bubble that is eliminating many people from the market), you will kill more people not save them.
But a much lower percentage of people will be able to afford to buy and live in a new house, and more will live in mobile units. Not many people in Kentucky, or anywhere that tornados occur regularly, can afford $300-500k homes.
A question for you weather guys that follow this all the time. What is the percentage of people that are killed in tornados are killed in permanent fixed housing units versus in mobile units (mobile homes and travel trailers)?
I don’t know the exact answer, but I do know that if you mandate construction that people can’t afford (and the housing market is already at the top of a bubble that is eliminating many people from the market), you will kill more people not save them.
Posted on 12/16/21 at 2:01 am to captdalton
quote:
So your argument is that we should demand all new housing cost $300/square foot instead of the current $150/square foot. That way a lower percentage of permanent structures will be destroyed. And the people in them will have a higher chance of surviving.
No. Just proper anchoring to the foundation for what is supposed to be a "well built structure". You cant build a house to survive EF4 or above realistically.
Putting unreasonable upward pressure on housing prices isnt an answer.
quote:
But a much lower percentage of people will be able to afford to buy and live in a new house, and more will live in mobile units. Not many people in Kentucky, or anywhere that tornados occur regularly, can afford $300-500k homes.
I agree. Affordability has to be considered. One thought would be community shelters for those who cant afford in home saferooms or those in mobile homes. Wont work every time but with the lead times here would have been helpful.
quote:
What is the percentage of people that are killed in tornados are killed in permanent fixed housing units versus in mobile units (mobile homes and travel trailers)?
Idk off the top of my head but its certainly skewed to mobile units having more deaths.
quote:
I do know that if you mandate construction that people can’t afford (and the housing market is already at the top of a bubble that is eliminating many people from the market), you will kill more people not save them
Yes.
Posted on 12/16/21 at 2:40 am to JusTrollin
quote:
Do you think a building that can withstand an ef5 tornado would be affordable or even practical?
Hint the answer is not yes.
Of course not.
But a built in shelter isn’t cost prohibitive, and should be considered for some places like schools and factories in tornado alley. Likely just a reinforced room or rooms that double as a bathroom or conference room depending on the application.
This post was edited on 12/16/21 at 2:45 am
Posted on 12/16/21 at 2:44 am to captdalton
quote:
So your argument is that we should demand all new housing cost $300/square foot instead of the current $150/square foot. That way a lower percentage of permanent structures will be destroyed. And the people in them will have a higher chance of surviving.
No. He’s just asking that more businesses and homes be built to a standard that is defined as a “well built structure”.
The mayfield candle factory is definitely not that.
Posted on 12/16/21 at 7:12 am to captdalton
quote:
So your argument is that we should demand all new housing cost $300/square foot instead of the current $150/square foot. That way a lower percentage of permanent structures will be destroyed. And the people in them will have a higher chance of surviving.
I am at tail end of this discussion, but isn’t the question focused more on how can homeowners survive a tornado rather than keeping the entire home intact during tornado?
For example, underground storm shelters are available. Costs range from 2K to 10K and up. FEMA feds can provide some assistance as well. That certainly does not translate into $300 a sq ft. Sorry if this point has been covered already.
Posted on 12/17/21 at 5:31 pm to Pepperoni
Posted on 12/17/21 at 5:33 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
quote:
Some texts from an Amazon driver and dispatch during the Illinois tornado.
I just started a thread on this before I saw it here. Figured it could use its own.
This post was edited on 12/17/21 at 5:33 pm
Posted on 12/17/21 at 5:34 pm to LegendInMyMind
quote:
I just started a thread on this before I saw it here. Figured it could use its own.
Just seen it 
Posted on 12/17/21 at 5:34 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
Wow, let's hear Bezos tweets on that.
Posted on 12/17/21 at 6:43 pm to LegendInMyMind
quote:
NWS Paducah, KY @NWSPaducah
After surveys by the Memphis and Nashville offices, here are the preliminary damage survey results of an EF-3 tornado which tracked 122.7 miles over Tennessee and Christian/Todd counties in Western Kentucky.
Posted on 12/17/21 at 6:44 pm to rt3
quote:
NWS Paducah, KY @NWSPaducah
After adding in the results of storm damage surveys by the Louisville and Memphis offices, the preliminary estimate of the full Western Kentucky EF4 tornado path length is 165.7 miles. The tornado began 1 mile SW of Woodland Mills, TN and ended 2.5 miles NE of Falls of Rough, KY.
Posted on 12/17/21 at 7:02 pm to rt3
so... at least 2 100+ mile long tornadoes... but we've been deprived of the longest in history
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