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re: Thoughts on people who wear Che Guevara shirts
Posted on 1/23/14 at 11:37 am to Darth_Vader
Posted on 1/23/14 at 11:37 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
quote:I have read books on Che' independently and they are widely varying in which side is taken. You can't deny that his popularity/notoriety derives from his actions as being a "freedom-fighter". You could substitute other words in there but his political actions are what made him famous...right? He tried to organize rebellion against governmental institutions that in several cases were known for their brutality. Do you dispute that fact? Thus, in the eyes of those he tried to liberate from the tyrannical systems, he is a hero. What could be a more basic description than that? That is why some people wear t-shirts with his picture on them.
Answer one question..... 1. Would you consider Heinrich Himmler a "freedom fighter" as well? I ask this because the only difference between the two men is one toiled under the banner of National Socialism while the other did the same under the Communist banner. So, what say you? Was Himmler a "freedom fighter"?
Give it up, Himmler is a stupid comparison to Che.
Simon Bolivar is a better comparison to Che.
2
Posted on 1/23/14 at 11:42 am to Flame Salamander
quote:
Didn't you learn anything from the college history of the Americas courses that you took?
your repeated referrals to college history classes as some sort of find word on the matter pretty much confirms you have no idea how the world turns...
Posted on 1/23/14 at 11:45 am to REG861
quote:
To them, Che represents things like self-determination. They view him as a symbol, or a sign like you said, of rebellion.
That's why I believe you have to separate Che the man and Che the symbol when discussing him because it leads to two different discussions.
However, I believe no white non-Hispanic person should ever wear the shirt. If they want to show their support for rebels in South America, make a different shirt
Posted on 1/23/14 at 11:45 am to Ole War Skule
quote:
your repeated referrals to college history classes as some sort of find word on the matter pretty much confirms you have no idea how the world turns...
and you are still a 12 year old boy that got no points for this answer.
Posted on 1/23/14 at 11:45 am to Flame Salamander
quote:
Give it up, Himmler is a stupid comparison to Che.
Simon Bolivar is a better comparison to Che.
bullshite.
How many people did Bolivar have executed for their political beliefs?
Che was to Castro in many regards what Himmler was to Hitler.
Posted on 1/23/14 at 11:48 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
quote:Give it up, Himmler is a stupid comparison to Che. Simon Bolivar is a better comparison to Che. bullshite. How many people did Bolivar have executed for their political beliefs? Che was to Castro in many regards what Himmler was to Hitler
I have yet to hear you acknowledge the horrible oppression going on in these countries. Are denying that this wasn't going down?
Posted on 1/23/14 at 11:54 am to Flame Salamander
quote:
I have yet to hear you acknowledge the horrible oppression going on in these countries. Are denying that this wasn't going down?
I am not here to defend the oppressions of any of the dictators and despots of history. There is only one person here trying to gloss over the historic record of a monster and that person is you.
Posted on 1/23/14 at 11:58 am to SaintCajun
quote:
Che the man and Che the symbol
What?
Posted on 1/23/14 at 12:00 pm to RogerTheShrubber
I just wanna thank everyone for burning the last hour i had before lunch.
Oh and frick Che
Oh and frick Che
Posted on 1/23/14 at 12:01 pm to Flame Salamander
quote:
My answers are the mainstream answers you would get from your college history class as was taught to me. Not some one-sided ridiculous history revisionist propaganda.
Ironic post is ironic. Then again, I think your name speaks volumes about you; so I'm not really putting much stock in your contributions to the thread. This is right on the cusp of an excellent troll, but you're showing your desire to hook them a bit too much. A hair more subtlety and you would have had them all.
Posted on 1/23/14 at 12:02 pm to Jim Rockford
I'm totally gonna print a t shirt with clean cut Che and wear that.
Posted on 1/23/14 at 12:03 pm to Jorts R Us
quote:
I'm totally gonna print a t shirt with clean cut Che and wear that.
Hipster Chic Che will see that as edgy and ironic. You could make bank. Or, as stated earlier, everyone will think you are wearing a young Michael Corleone shirt.
Posted on 1/23/14 at 12:07 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
I am not here to defend the oppressions of any of the dictators and despots of history. There is only one person here trying to gloss over the historic record of a monster and that person is you.
and will you deny how these despots got into power...that being primarily through the actions of the US CIA and independent US corporations?
And that these despots were brought to justice (usually with extreme prejudice)?
And that there was also a racial element to the Che story...in that it was primarily the native americans that were the benficiary of Che's actions? His actions were to free the peons from land slavery.
Now, do you understand why some revere him and still wear his t-shirt.
This post was edited on 1/23/14 at 1:43 pm
Posted on 1/23/14 at 12:07 pm to SaintCajun
It's just ignorance.
This post was edited on 1/23/14 at 12:07 pm
Posted on 1/23/14 at 12:09 pm to Flame Salamander
quote:
Now, do you understand why some revere him and still wear his t-shirt.
The'll mature. There's hope for them.
Posted on 1/23/14 at 12:12 pm to SaintCajun
quote:
That's why I believe you have to separate Che the man and Che the symbol when discussing him because it leads to two different discussions.
Che the "symbol" is derived from Che the man and his actions, you can't separate the two. The problem is Che the man was/is undeservedly idolized, therefore he has become a symbol of something valiant.
If people who simply wear his shirt as a symbol did any research they would learn he wasn't the man he is portrayed to be, and therefore his "symbol" is actually ironic in its absurdity.
Posted on 1/23/14 at 12:13 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Regardless of how bad communism is, it's hard to dispute that a lot of mischief takes place in the world in the name of capitalism, or perhaps corporatism would be a better word for it.
There is no way in hell you can compare the greed of a few in capitalism, to the outright mass murder, starvation, outright poverty, and resulting deaths of millions under Communism. I know you wish marxism had a wonderful track record, because the liberal ideology follows the tenants of marxism, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need", but the simple truth is that marxism leads to poverty and death for millions, regardless of location.
This post was edited on 1/23/14 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 1/23/14 at 12:14 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Regardless of how bad communism is, it's hard to dispute that a lot of mischief takes place in the world in the name of capitalism, or perhaps corporatism would be a better word for it.
Anybody who would make such a bold conclusory statement should be asked to explain himself so that the reader may more fully understand the basis for such a bold statement.
I hope that you have some time to start a thread on the topic of your thesis so that we may all fully understand the basis for your conclusion.
Posted on 1/23/14 at 12:15 pm to rintintin
quote:
Che the "symbol" is derived from Che the man and his actions, you can't separate the two. The problem is Che the man was/is undeservedly idolized, therefore he has become a symbol of something valiant.
If people who simply wear his shirt as a symbol did any research they would learn he wasn't the man he is portrayed to be, and therefore his "symbol" is actually ironic in its absurdity.
Yup. Might as well wear a Mao Tse-Tung or Joseph Stalin shirt. Or wear a shirt representing the North Vietnamese army.
Posted on 1/23/14 at 12:15 pm to BugAC
quote:
"from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
Human nature keeps people from performing to their ability, but increases their sense of need.
Actually, it's the whole withering away of the state that trips the communists up. Lord Acton was wise.
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