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re: This is Huge For Our Coastal Restoration

Posted on 11/3/16 at 2:38 pm to
Posted by Cowboyfan89
Member since Sep 2015
13055 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 2:38 pm to
quote:

Number one contributer to coastal erotion was leveeing the MS River.


The levees contribute more to subsidence than erosion. The levees haven't caused erosion. They have cut off the sediment that rebuilds the land.

Saltwater intrusion by way of trenasses, oil field canals, and dredging have been the real mechanisms of erosion. Then you have open water, that results in increased wave action, which washes out even more marsh.

The Cameron-Creole watershed has lost more fresh and intermediate marsh to saltwater intrusion than any other factor, which has led to erosion and conversion to open water.
Posted by Tchefuncte Tiger
Bat'n Rudge
Member since Oct 2004
64006 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 2:39 pm to
quote:

The project has actually created land, and you're bitching about it.



People will start bitching when saltwater fish species begin to be replaced by more freshwater species. Look no further than the oystermen in St. Bernard Parish who griped about new land formation requiring they go further to harvest oysters.
Posted by Cowboyfan89
Member since Sep 2015
13055 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 2:39 pm to
Article clearly states this project took place on Pass A Loutre Wildlife Management Area, which is owned by the state.
Posted by CarRamrod
Spurbury, VT
Member since Dec 2006
58613 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

The entire Mississippi River Basin below Baton Rouge is slowly subsiding.
not entirely true but i know what you are trying to say.
quote:

aurepas is becoming a brackish lake, and the swamp is slowly dying.
and do you know why?
Posted by Barf
EBR
Member since Feb 2015
3727 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 2:56 pm to
Sorry. I was referring to mardi gras pass.
Posted by Cowboyfan89
Member since Sep 2015
13055 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 2:57 pm to
quote:

and do you know why?


Saltwater intrusion, lack of freshwater input, invasive aquatics outcompeting natives.

Maurepas Swamp being cut off from the Mississippi River was detrimental to the health of the swamp, and it all but trashed Bayou Manchac.

Hopefully the freshwater reintroduction project happens sooner rather than later, but who knows if that will actually reverse the issues at hand.
Posted by Tchefuncte Tiger
Bat'n Rudge
Member since Oct 2004
64006 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 3:04 pm to
quote:

and it all but trashed Bayou Manchac.


Closing Bayou Manchac off to the Mississippi River is what killled it. Maurepas Swamp wouldn't, I imagine, have any impact on Bayou Manchac because it connects the Amite River to the Mississippi. Too bad this bayou cannot be used anymore as a relief valve for when the Amite gets above flood stage.
Posted by Loungefly85
Lafayette
Member since Jul 2016
7930 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 3:08 pm to
Plaquemines Parish west of the river has a levee surround the inhabited part. They need to cut the river and outer levee around west Pointe A La Hache and create a controlled outflow canal into the western marsh.
Posted by Cowboyfan89
Member since Sep 2015
13055 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 3:09 pm to
I meant cutting off Maurepas from the Misssippi ruined Manchac, because that was the connection between the Mississippi and Maurepas.

It may not have been a huge source, but it was a source of freshwater.
This post was edited on 11/3/16 at 3:12 pm
Posted by MadtownTiger
Texas
Member since Sep 2010
4428 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 3:22 pm to
quote:

Number one contributer to coastal erotion was leveeing the MS River. 2nd was allowing oil companies to cut canals directly through the Marsh.


Faulting in Louisiana is easily the second leading cause of land loss by a extremely large margin compared to erosion from canals cut by the O&G industry. They are different dynamics as levee prevents land growth by blocking redistribution of sediment, where growth faulting actively removes land due to the sliding of the fault block downwards.

The gov't just wants to tell you that the canals cut in the marsh are causing all of the land loss because the O&G industry is so easily portrayed as the bad guy. It's an absolute joke the difference between the human-directed land loss (canals) and nature (faulting).

A former geologist with Stone Energy, last name McClendon, has done some great research with this using seismic data across LA mapping these fault systems. Couldn't retrace the articles, but they are on LSU's website either under the Coastal Research or the Biotech headlines.

They will never save the birdfoot delta as it's an abnormal delta as far out into the Gulf as it is. If you look at previous delta systems, they were broader and their extent into the gulf was not nearly what the birdfoot is. The birdfoot is how it is because of farming techniques during the initial development of North America. Farming techniques brought from Europe allowed for enormous amounts of sediments to be shed into the drainage basin. This lead the building of the delta outwards into the gulf much further than previous systems.

If they want to save the current delta, they are going to have blow holes in the levee much farther up towards Belle Chasse.
Posted by Cowboyfan89
Member since Sep 2015
13055 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 3:32 pm to
quote:

Faulting in Louisiana is easily the second leading cause of land loss by a extremely large margin compared to erosion from canals cut by the O&G industry.


Source?

I've done considerable research on coastal landloss, and have never seen this cited as a significant factor. Land loss caused by trenasses and oil canals is easily visible as well, making it a prime and easy candidate to catch blame.

ETA: Sorry, missed the part where you said you couldn't find the articles.

People will correlate coastal land loss to anything if they can make it work. The trenasses and canals are just more visible in how they have caused landloss.
This post was edited on 11/3/16 at 3:34 pm
Posted by J Murdah
Member since Jun 2008
40227 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 3:34 pm to
quote:

his is Huge For Our Coastal Restoration
Posted by biglego
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2007
85463 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 3:34 pm to
quote:

Another 'stopping' nature project that will eventually be a waste. S

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're trolling. But if you'd rather be labeled retarded instead, let me know.
Posted by jimbeam
University of LSU
Member since Oct 2011
75703 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 3:35 pm to
quote:

If they want to save the current delta, they are going to have blow holes in the levee much farther up towards Belle Chasse.
bingo

Faults have definitely played a role as well. Oil canals and resulting spoil banks have obviously as well. (Disrupting hydrology and whatnot.)
This post was edited on 11/3/16 at 3:36 pm
Posted by Cowboyfan89
Member since Sep 2015
13055 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 3:37 pm to
Based on the idea that faults are the cause of the wetland loss, anything short of restoring it to natural conditions will be unsuccessful. And if the birdfoot is unsustainable (which I agree with), then any effort in the deltaic region will be fruitless.

ETA: and more to the point of faults: this is not a new phenomenon. The faults have always been there. Man-made canals and levees have not. While scientists may be able to point to areas unaltered by man that are subsiding, can they definitively say that leveeing the river had no affect on those areas? Mississippi River sediments influence the entire Gulf Coast. If new sediment is not deposited, subsidence occurs faster.

The canals and trenasses may not have as much of an impact in the deltaic plain, but they are definitely a major contributor elsewhere on the coast.
This post was edited on 11/3/16 at 3:45 pm
Posted by Sentrius
Fort Rozz
Member since Jun 2011
64757 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 3:58 pm to
quote:

So how much money was spent on doing this????

Another 'stopping' nature project that will eventually be a waste. Same can be said for rebuilding New Orleans.




Posts like this are why I fricking love the internet.

Any a-hole with an incredibly unfounded and poorly researched opinion can pass it off as indisputable fact.
Posted by MadtownTiger
Texas
Member since Sep 2010
4428 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 4:05 pm to
Here is a decent article CowboysFan, but it is lengthy and pretty technical. I just cannot find those articles by McClendon, they were a little easier to catch on to.

Study from LSU and USACE

But it goes into the observation of hot spots. There are certain areas around LA, Buras-Empire (Bay Adams), Big Branch NWR on the Northshore, area in New Orleans East, and another in Golden Meadow/Leeville area. Those are the ones in South-South Central LA that were studied. The government will try to lump together land loss all across LA where in reality there are areas that are losing land at a more substantial rate compared to the whole of LA. These areas have had seismic survey shot in the area and are directly connected with large growth faults.

One that is close to me is the Empire-Buras fault. If you look at a map of the area, the northern shoreline of Bay Adams is actually the fault scarp and the bay is the sunken foot wall of the fault block. After fishing that area for so long it makes since why the bay's marshes are sinking so fast.

ETA: But something to think about with the addition of canals to the marsh system from a fisheries perspective. Spawning fish and crustaceans use the marshes as a hatchery for young. The survival rate of these young has been directly related to the accessible surface area of marsh edge. Therefore, because the canals allow for more access to the a larger area of marsh edge for these hatchlings as a shelter/nursery, it helps the fisheries industry by having greater populations of seafood to harvest every year.
This post was edited on 11/3/16 at 4:12 pm
Posted by Cowboyfan89
Member since Sep 2015
13055 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 4:49 pm to
I'll have to hop on my computer to take a look at the article; too large for my phone to handle. However, I was doing some other reading on the faults, and I do recall (fuzzily) reading about this in the past. It makes sense in some areas, but not all. Also, Big Branch is an area in particular that gets muddy to me, because there are canals there that impact erosion.

And while I agree with your point regarding canals/fisheries, it is not a sufficient enough justification for the canals. Saltwater intrusion has caused significant marsh to open water conversion within the Cameron-Creole watershed, which is great for the fisheries...until the marsh is completely gone and it is one giant, open water system. While this was not a direct result of canals, it was caused by man-made alterations, and I can thini of other instances where canals have led to significant erosion.

That being said, I think the canals/trenasses are more significant in the chenier plain as opposed to the deltaic plain. But, with the loose riverine sediments that make up the deltaic plain, it's not difficult to imagine the impact those canals could have on a system. While the studies may show that faults are having a significant impact on wetland loss, they are not as visible as the canals that stretch across the coast, and the ever-expanding open waters they connect to. Just in the Falgout Canal/Dulac area, there are significant areas of open water, with the only land being along the (former) banks of the canals. Whether these canals are acting in conjunction with faults I do not know, but it is hard to argue that those canals didn't have some effect on that marsh, even if it was just allowing saltwater flow into a previously fresh or intermediate marsh, causing vegetation dieoff.
Posted by REG861
Ocelot, Iowa
Member since Oct 2011
38363 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 4:54 pm to
quote:

So how much money was spent on doing this????

Another 'stopping' nature project that will eventually be a waste. Same can be said for rebuilding New Orleans.




what a fricking retard. I'm embarrassed to be living on the same planet as you. The state of LA probably spends more on welfare for your family than it did on this project.
This post was edited on 11/3/16 at 4:58 pm
Posted by Passing Wind
Dutchtown
Member since Apr 2015
4867 posts
Posted on 11/3/16 at 5:17 pm to
Actually we fricked with nature rerouting the river with levee systems you assclown. Learn how things work. The river used to deposit sediment to create barrier islands and land. We are putting it back to the way God created it to a very small degree. Good grief.
This post was edited on 11/3/16 at 5:19 pm
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