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Message
re: The gloves are off regarding St. George...
Posted on 1/11/14 at 5:01 pm to Mahootney
Posted on 1/11/14 at 5:01 pm to Mahootney
quote:
All people outside of the incorporated BR is racist.
I don't think that is true. But LT admitted his motivations are race based a few posts ago. At least he admits it. I admire him for being honest about it.
Frankly I still have hope the stealth racists are outnumbered by more sensible people in SG. My hope is bolstered by how long it's taking the organizers to get just 25% of the voters in SG to sign the petition calling for an incorporation vote.
My motivation is I don't believe running away from the problems we have in our schools solves the problem. And I hate politicians who blatantly deceive people in order to feather their own nest.
And for the snot who doubts I own my own business or that I have some financial motivation opposing SG, my business derives 0% of its income from BR, EBR, Louisiana or even the U.S. My work is 100% international. And I have seen first hand what happens when countries and cities get Balkanized into politicians' separate little kingdoms. Both sides lose when it happens. The politicians are the only winners.
3
Posted on 1/11/14 at 5:05 pm to LSURussian
and we have seen that you are full of shite.
Posted on 1/11/14 at 5:31 pm to LSURussian
I actually have owned a chain of service centers that were in America. These towns I could pronounce the name of the town, had best employees, which grew my profits. Big thing I saw was you had a good mix of age groups elderly, families with kids, and younger single people. Biggest thing I saw was small business growth equaled if not exceeded corporate businesses.
Towns where I shut down centers were similar to Baton Rouge the middle class were leaving the area. Retailers followed the middle class with families. Big Cities did not downsize government spending, and schools kept throwing money at issues money could not solve. Those service centers I had huge theft issues, hard time attracting good employees, and my taxes shot through the roof while government services got worse and worse. Corporate business stayed for awhile until they found a better place to move taking the last good jobs with them.
Baton Rouge is becoming the same way. Go to neighborhood churches which are a good guage of the age group and family base of an area. You see older people, but where are the families with the children you need to grow a town. These people spend more money in a community and where the growth is. You really need all three older people, younger people, and families to support a community.
Baton Rouge is losing the families which will be the downfall of Baton Rouge.
I see St George as a place that can grow if ran right and help keep the key group families with kids that care about their town in Baton Rouge that we are missing.
By the way I sold out my business to work for a Mfg that I serviced their products for years. They were looking at Baton Rouge as a possible place to build a mfg facility. One of the three criteria was not met and that was good education system. They still have the Livingston Parish I-12/I-55 area in their mind due to rail, interstates, and stable good education system.
Guess what I employed Americans and saw what works in America!
I never minded paying more taxes in a good community because you will get the investment back in good workers.
Towns where I shut down centers were similar to Baton Rouge the middle class were leaving the area. Retailers followed the middle class with families. Big Cities did not downsize government spending, and schools kept throwing money at issues money could not solve. Those service centers I had huge theft issues, hard time attracting good employees, and my taxes shot through the roof while government services got worse and worse. Corporate business stayed for awhile until they found a better place to move taking the last good jobs with them.
Baton Rouge is becoming the same way. Go to neighborhood churches which are a good guage of the age group and family base of an area. You see older people, but where are the families with the children you need to grow a town. These people spend more money in a community and where the growth is. You really need all three older people, younger people, and families to support a community.
Baton Rouge is losing the families which will be the downfall of Baton Rouge.
I see St George as a place that can grow if ran right and help keep the key group families with kids that care about their town in Baton Rouge that we are missing.
By the way I sold out my business to work for a Mfg that I serviced their products for years. They were looking at Baton Rouge as a possible place to build a mfg facility. One of the three criteria was not met and that was good education system. They still have the Livingston Parish I-12/I-55 area in their mind due to rail, interstates, and stable good education system.
Guess what I employed Americans and saw what works in America!
I never minded paying more taxes in a good community because you will get the investment back in good workers.
This post was edited on 1/11/14 at 5:40 pm
Posted on 1/11/14 at 5:39 pm to johnnyrocket
If st. George doesn't pass I will sell my house and move to greener pastures. This is the reality for most young families in ebr. Ascension and Livingston are the benefactors of this and its not hard to figure out why. St. Georgemay in fact be the only thing able to save Baton Rouge from itself.
Posted on 1/11/14 at 5:41 pm to johnnyrocket
I think St. George was a village before a city. It's just growing bigger. The City of Baton Rouge, because of its policies, is in decline.
If the power brokers of Baton Rouge wanted to keep it, they should have offered it more - like local schools, no double taxation, etc.
Many people in St. George don't care about downtown, CEPEX, The Chamber, Commercial Properties, The Redevelopment Authority, etc. They just want a good local school, good fire and police protection, and local government that understands their concerns.
It's not a hard concept, unless you are losing power and influence, and then you may squeal. Otherwise, it keeps people and tax revenue in the Parish.
If the power brokers of Baton Rouge wanted to keep it, they should have offered it more - like local schools, no double taxation, etc.
Many people in St. George don't care about downtown, CEPEX, The Chamber, Commercial Properties, The Redevelopment Authority, etc. They just want a good local school, good fire and police protection, and local government that understands their concerns.
It's not a hard concept, unless you are losing power and influence, and then you may squeal. Otherwise, it keeps people and tax revenue in the Parish.
Posted on 1/11/14 at 5:42 pm to tossedoff
quote:
If the facts support your position, present them and let the people decide
I have presented facts...more facts than all of the SG supporters combined.
Is it a fact that both Central & Zachary raised their taxes significantly after forming their own school district? Yes.
Is it a fact both Baker & Zachary's city expenditures per capita are significantly more (75%-90%) than the SG city budget? Yes.
Did the organizers of Central ( one of whom is Bodi White who is also leading the legislative effort to form SG school district) tell their voters before they broke away that they did not foresee any tax increases if Central formed its own school district? Yes. (That can be found in the wiki article of the history of the Central City incorporation.)
Are Central's school system property taxes 60% higher than the EBR system school taxs? Yes.
Is the Zachary school system's property taxes almost double the EBR school taxes? Yes.
Did Central School District almost immediately after breaking away from the EBR school system call for a significant property tax increase? Yes.
Did Central have to pass an extension two months ago, in November, of the original ten-year "temporary" school property tax under the threat that teachers would be laid off and class sizes significantly increased if the tax extension failed? Yes.
Is the Central School board discussing calling for a vote on additional school taxes in order tp build new schools and pay the system's legacy cost legal obligations to EBR school system, a proposal that has already been voted down twice? Yes.
Was it in the news less than 10 days ago that Central City is considering calling for a tax election to issue bonds to build a new city building complex? Yes.
Does the SG official website say no additional taxes are expected if incorporation occurs? Yes.
Do the SG leaders say 6 new schools are needed in the SG district? Yes.
Do they have any evidence the money is there without a tax increase to build, staff and supply those schools? No.
Is one of the primary leaders of the SG effort, Bodi White, in the real estate business? Yes.
Will the new city of SG and new SG school system be in need of real estate for city and school buildings? Yes.
Does Bodi White have a history in the legislature of proposing bills that benefit him financially? Yes. (Look up the history of the legislature passing a bill in 2007 to TRIPLE their legislative pay which Jindal vetoed and White's bill to double from $50 to $100/meal the amount lobbyists are allowed to spend to buy a legislator a meal.)
But, I am the one here who has not presented any facts.
Posted on 1/11/14 at 5:42 pm to dragginass
I agree 100%.
Good community schools will trickle down to a good community, growth in businesses, and quality of life.
This attracts businesses.
You can only give so many tax breaks which everyone does that to attract large companies.
Good community schools will trickle down to a good community, growth in businesses, and quality of life.
This attracts businesses.
You can only give so many tax breaks which everyone does that to attract large companies.
Posted on 1/11/14 at 5:47 pm to russinbr
quote:Now there is a well thought out, objective, fact-based, mature analysis.
and we have seen that you are full of shite.
Do you know how I know I am winning when I am debating an issue? Because the other side starts resorting to personal attacks rather than trying to use facts and data.
Thank you.
Posted on 1/11/14 at 5:49 pm to LSURussian
So you are saying that higher sales & property tax rates is hurting Central or towns like Lenexa, KS in the Kansas City Metro Area?
Then why are retailers, restaurants, and neighborhoods coming up faster now that before Central was a city?
I tried going to Mike Anderson's, Chinese Buffet, and Sammy's in Central and they had long lines waiting to get in.
Drove back to Baton Rouge and had no wait to get in a restaurant which was half empty.
Why is Denham Springs businesses growing when their sales tax is at 10%?
Why are churches shutting down in Baton Rouge or in the red while churches in Central, Denham Springs, Zachary, and East Ascension Parish, and even suburbs of Kansas City Metro Area are growing?
It comes down to the business growth will follow the middle class family.
I admit I am a dumb American that graduated from a State College, started my own chain of repair centers in American, invested in America, and I saw how cities in America grow or die.
Then why are retailers, restaurants, and neighborhoods coming up faster now that before Central was a city?
I tried going to Mike Anderson's, Chinese Buffet, and Sammy's in Central and they had long lines waiting to get in.
Drove back to Baton Rouge and had no wait to get in a restaurant which was half empty.
Why is Denham Springs businesses growing when their sales tax is at 10%?
Why are churches shutting down in Baton Rouge or in the red while churches in Central, Denham Springs, Zachary, and East Ascension Parish, and even suburbs of Kansas City Metro Area are growing?
It comes down to the business growth will follow the middle class family.
I admit I am a dumb American that graduated from a State College, started my own chain of repair centers in American, invested in America, and I saw how cities in America grow or die.
This post was edited on 1/11/14 at 5:57 pm
Posted on 1/11/14 at 5:55 pm to johnnyrocket
quote:
Good community schools will trickle down to a good community
Students who live in the SG area currently are assigned to attend EBR system schools in the local SG area except for 1) the ones who choose to attend magnet schools outside the area, and 2) students who are displaced to Tara and Woodlawn waiting for the new Lee High School construction to be completed, which should happen before the start of the next school year in August.
Forced bussing for desegregation purposes ended with the 2009 school year following the ruling by the federal court and the Justice Dept that EBR schools are desegregated.
Posted on 1/11/14 at 5:58 pm to LSURussian
quote:All very good points, very informative.
Posted by LSURussian quote: If the facts support your position, present them and let the people decide I have presented facts...more facts than all of the SG supporters combined. Is it a fact that both Central & Zachary raised their taxes significantly after forming their own school district? Yes. Is it a fact both Baker & Zachary's city expenditures per capita are significantly more (75%-90%) than the SG city budget? Yes. Did the organizers of Central ( one of whom is Bodi White who is also leading the legislative effort to form SG school district) tell their voters before they broke away that they did not foresee any tax increases if Central formed its own school district? Yes. (That can be found in the wiki article of the history of the Central City incorporation.) Are Central's school system property taxes 60% higher than the EBR system school taxs? Yes. Is the Zachary school system's property taxes almost double the EBR school taxes? Yes. Did Central School District almost immediately after breaking away from the EBR school system call for a significant property tax increase? Yes. Did Central have to pass an extension two months ago, in November, of the original ten-year "temporary" school property tax under the threat that teachers would be laid off and class sizes significantly increased if the tax extension failed? Yes. Is the Central School board discussing calling for a vote on additional school taxes in order tp build new schools and pay the system's legacy cost legal obligations to EBR school system, a proposal that has already been voted down twice? Yes. Was it in the news less than 10 days ago that Central City is considering calling for a tax election to issue bonds to build a new city building complex? Yes. Does the SG official website say no additional taxes are expected if incorporation occurs? Yes. Do the SG leaders say 6 new schools are needed in the SG district? Yes. Do they have any evidence the money is there without a tax increase to build, staff and supply those schools? No. Is one of the primary leaders of the SG effort, Bodi White, in the real estate business? Yes. Will the new city of SG and new SG school system be in need of real estate for city and school buildings? Yes. Does Bodi White have a history in the legislature of proposing bills that benefit him financially? Yes. (Look up the history of the legislature passing a bill in 2007 to TRIPLE their legislative pay which Jindal vetoed and White's bill to double from $50 to $100/meal the amount lobbyists are allowed to spend to buy a legislator a meal.) But, I am the one here who has not presented any facts.
To which I'll respond.....
So?
More taxes....
So?
So the choice is:
1) status quo
2) pay more taxes for the opportunity for better schools.
Pretty easy choice Imo.
Posted on 1/11/14 at 5:59 pm to johnnyrocket
I am saying what I've already written several times in this thread: the leaders of the SG incorporation effort are not being honest by claiming no new taxes will be needed or requested. Anyone who believes them are ignoring what actually happened in other similar cases.
Posted on 1/11/14 at 6:00 pm to LSURussian
quote:Kinda like your racist comments.
Do you know how I know I am winning when I am debating an issue? Because the other side starts resorting to personal attacks rather than trying to use facts and data.
Posted on 1/11/14 at 6:02 pm to Mahootney
quote:So why won't the SG leaders just be honest about it?
Pretty easy choice Imo.
Could it be they know if they are truthful about it some residents of SG won't agree with you and will oppose a new city?
Posted on 1/11/14 at 6:04 pm to LSURussian
EBRP School System failed everyone.
Even if desegregation is so called over the damage is done. You tore up community pride (blacks, whites, Asian, Latino, etc) and parental involvement in the schools.
If St George becomes a city they will go through growing pains. Once they get through it the town will boom.
They need to see the needs of the whole area.
Appealing to the needs of Gardere where people want a school they can walk to due to they depend on a public transit system.
Mayfair is the same way they need to appeal to local elementary, middle, and central high school.
Florida Blvd East appeal to these people also.
Then they can win by getting these people involved in the campaign due to no one has shown compassion to these groups.
Even if desegregation is so called over the damage is done. You tore up community pride (blacks, whites, Asian, Latino, etc) and parental involvement in the schools.
If St George becomes a city they will go through growing pains. Once they get through it the town will boom.
They need to see the needs of the whole area.
Appealing to the needs of Gardere where people want a school they can walk to due to they depend on a public transit system.
Mayfair is the same way they need to appeal to local elementary, middle, and central high school.
Florida Blvd East appeal to these people also.
Then they can win by getting these people involved in the campaign due to no one has shown compassion to these groups.
This post was edited on 1/11/14 at 6:07 pm
Posted on 1/11/14 at 6:05 pm to Mahootney
quote:
Kinda like your racist comments
Do you honestly believe race has no bearing on the SG efforts? Really?
Posted on 1/11/14 at 6:09 pm to LSURussian
I do. Do you believe race has nothing to do with the efforts to stop incorporation?
Posted on 1/11/14 at 6:12 pm to LSURussian
No due to their are hardworking black families, latino families, Asian families, and white families that want the best for their kids.
I live in the city and see kids get up at 5 am to catch a bus to go across the city. I see them get off at a transfer point. I see latino families walk their kids to the bus stop waiting with their kids hoping for a better education for their kids. I also see Black people group together in community to walk their kids to the bus to also. I feel for these people.
I do also see people who do not live in my area drop their kids off with their friend. The kid may or may not get on the bus. They cause fights with the other kids and they have no stake in my neighborhood but EBRP School board lets them in to get the all mighty dollar.
I remember in 1980's when black people wanted their kids to go to Greenville Elementary and they had to call role after recess to make sure the neighborhood kids did not sneak into the classroom. Their parents did not want to send them to Red Oaks like my parents did want to send me to Greenville.
I live in the city and see kids get up at 5 am to catch a bus to go across the city. I see them get off at a transfer point. I see latino families walk their kids to the bus stop waiting with their kids hoping for a better education for their kids. I also see Black people group together in community to walk their kids to the bus to also. I feel for these people.
I do also see people who do not live in my area drop their kids off with their friend. The kid may or may not get on the bus. They cause fights with the other kids and they have no stake in my neighborhood but EBRP School board lets them in to get the all mighty dollar.
I remember in 1980's when black people wanted their kids to go to Greenville Elementary and they had to call role after recess to make sure the neighborhood kids did not sneak into the classroom. Their parents did not want to send them to Red Oaks like my parents did want to send me to Greenville.
This post was edited on 1/11/14 at 6:15 pm
Posted on 1/11/14 at 6:14 pm to johnnyrocket
quote:
EBRP School System failed everyone. Even in desegregation is so called over the damage is done.
I'm not going to defend the EBR school system history.
But for 40 years the school board didn't call the shots. It was the federal court making the decisions.
If we continue to fail our schools now, we will only have ourselves to blame.
Posted on 1/11/14 at 6:14 pm to LSURussian
quote:Optimism? Does it really matter? No.
So why won't the SG leaders just be honest about it?
quote:Maybe. Maybe not.
Could it be they know if they are truthful about it some residents of SG won't agree with you and will oppose a new city?
But the argument isn't whether or not ppl want more taxes. No one likes more taxes.
The argument is... if the increase in taxes and the quality of the education was quantified, would the people support SG & feel it was justified?
You have to be able to quantify both. No one has, other than you that taxes are higher & sg organizers that the schools will be better. So, everything is being based on speculation.
So it comes back to:
Status quo vs more taxes with the possibility of better schools.
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