re: The Atlantic: Waco Is Suppressing Evidence That Could Clear Innocent Bikers

There is fault on both sides in the Waco case however, if the police are supressing evidence and trying to manipulate the legal system then they need to be exposed and prosecuted. The law should be the same for everyone. While many biker gangs are just social groups, the Bandidos and Cossacks are more of a criminal element.

Either way though, this is being handled poorly.

Den bikers were good boys. They ain't never hurt no one

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There is fault on both sides in the Waco case however, if the police are supressing evidence and trying to manipulate the legal system then they need to be exposed and prosecuted. The law should be the same for everyone. While many biker gangs are just social groups, the Bandidos and Cossacks are more of a criminal element.

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I've said from the start that anyone who took part in the shootout should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The problem here though is the cops came in and just wholesale arrested everyone (like 170 in total) in the area who was on a motorcycle, irregardless of the fact there was zero evidence that they did anything wrong or had anything to do with the shootout. What's worse is there is plenty of evidence to clear these people and yet the folks in Waco are still ruining these people's lives. People have lost their jobs, lost their homes. even lost custody of their kids.

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Oh, and your title is misleading

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Agreed. The OP and the stories linked are conflating two different issues. Temporary gag orders =\= suppression of evidence.

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Just saying that while I think a lot of people are in line with you on the shadiness here, people are going to push back on the "it could happen to anyone."

While I understand and appreciate your point, most people are not involved in a hobby that at its very core has criminal activity (even if the majority of people are not involved in such). There is no question that 1%er MCs have driven the public perception and culture of bikers, regardless of their involvement or distance from those groups. Also, as discussed at length in these threads, they tend to maintain some central control/influence over a lot of COCs. Most of this shite I've learned from you, BTW.

Anyway, this isn't going to happen to your photography meeting, or your Auburn Alumni club meeting, or my fly fishing club outing.

I do agree that innocent people are getting wrapped up in this and I don't think "well they should know better than to be around 1% clubs" is a valid excuse.

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You're getting too wrapped up in the whole "biker" aspect of this. Most of the people they arrested had nothing to do with any 1% club, many didn't have anything to do with ANY club whatsoever.

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Were there non-bikers arrested?

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No. And being a biker does not make someone a criminal. The way our criminal justice system is supposed to work is for the cops to charge you with a crime there has to be actual evidence you personally, not just others who look and dress like you, committed a crime.

But the problem is this shoutout only involved a handful of people out in the parking lot. The vast majority of the people the cops arrested were not in the parking lot, they were inside Twin Peaks. And video from inside there shows those people took no part in the shoutout and only took cover when they heard gunfire outside. The cops have had this video evidence from day one and yet they still charged them all with capital murder and have ruined the lives of scores of obviously innocent people.

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Dude stop. You go off the rails when it isn't needed.

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Making counterpoints to your points =/= going off the rails.

We can have a civil conversation and have differing opinions can't we?

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I don't think you've done anything to counter my argument, which shouldn't really be offensive to you and doesn't negate the fricked up nature of the situation overall.

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What argument are you trying to make? I read your point as being they were arrested for being bikers and this somehow makes them culpable for the actions of others they do not know or even have any connection to other than they share the same hobby of riding a motorcycle. Am I missing something?

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Per the AP, there's video proof that the vast majority of the people they arrested at Twin Peaks had nothing to do with any shootout. That didn't stop the cops from arresting them, charging them all with capital murder, and getting $1,000,000 bond put on their heads.

So like I said, if they can do that to them, they can do it to you.

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You didn't grasp what I was saying I guess. I will NEVER be anywhere in the vicinity of a shootout so again there is no possibility of it happening to me.

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I very, very, explicitly made it clear that I didn't say bikers were culpable for being bikers. But, that doesn't mean your adage of "could happen to everyone applies." That was my point.

Your hobby is one with some shady history, governance, etc. Some other hobbies are like that. Most common hobbies are not. There aren't any mud checks in tennis leagues.

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Fair enough. But like I said, you're still focusing solely on the "hobby" or "lifestyle" aspect of this. What you're missing is the fact the cops arrested wholesale a group of people simply because of the cops own preconceived prejudices. Your right in that there's little to no chance the cops would do something like this to a tennis club. But there's other groups that many in power see as dangerous and undesirable. One example I could see happening is with gun owners groups. Imagine if you were attending a gun show and the ATF raided the place because some of the people there were suspected of having illegal firearms and instead of just arresting those people, they rounded up everyone there because you're all gun owners after all so therefor a threat.

The bottom line is everyone should be alarmed that the cops have arrested an entire group of people not based on evidence of any personal wrongdoing but instead based solely on their appearance and/or hobby.