re: Study: MRNA Vaccines Increase Risk of Contracting COVID-19; Each Booster Shot Raises Risk

quote:

---

Take Ochsner and other systems like it away, and a state like Louisiana would be a medical wasteland at this point with completely broke down defunct hospitals

---

Do you have a control group to prove your hypothesis? You are guessing what the medical landscape would look like based on your preconceived notions.

I don’t have a problem with Ochsner as it currently stands. I have a problem with what Ochsner wants to do which is monopolize every aspect of healthcare in a large geographic region for profit purposes.

Can you tell me what the medical landscape looks like in that environment in 25 years?

quote:

---

There is a reason why Ochsner and others like it came about, the hospitals at the local level were money pit complete failures

---

Ochsner took advantage, and still does, of federal funding loopholes. They aren’t taking over Medicaid hospitals out of the kindness of their heart. They are doing it to maintain optimum returns on federal healthcare dollars.

You are incredibly naive and misinformed on ochsner’s business plan and practices.

quote:

---

Other coronaviruses still use ACE/spike and I’m not sure we would have any incentive to look for their presence in other tissues prior to the pandemic.

---

With respect to the first SARS, there was more limited immunomodulatory effects, as there was no 'long-term' dysregulation of dendritic cells in SARS-1, whereas there is some evidence of prolonged dysfunction in SARS-2. Dendritic cell dysfunction is also characteristic of HIV, but we are still in the early stages of understanding immunity to COVID.
LINK
LINK

In addition, in some patients, there is evidence that there is T-Cell dysfunction, which would complicate any vaccination response. LINK

One possible theory (that I haven't investigated fully yet) is that there is some siRNA interaction between the spike protein and human immune cells that modulates immune response in some interesting ways. I think there is a strong chance that there is going to be some possible latent disease in certain people, or that repeated infections isn't producing as robust an antibody profile as one would think.

quote:

---

My question is did these patients already have some innate dysfunction of their immune cells and COVID took advantage of that resulting in a severe case? Or did they have a completely normal well functioning immune system and COVID destroyed it?

---

But as it relates to the vaccine, how many people “think they are perfectly” healthy in todays America, that aren’t?

I fully agree with you the vaccine statistically doesn’t have any real measurable impact for a true young healthy person. But the amount of people in this country that think they are healthy that are actually compromised is high. There are so many perfectly healthy Louisiana residents with pre diabetes and 150/95 blood pressure….

quote:

---

But as it relates to the vaccine, how many people “think they are perfectly” healthy in todays America, that aren’t? I fully agree with you the vaccine statistically doesn’t have any real measurable impact for a true young healthy person. But the amount of people in this country that think they are healthy that are actually compromised is high

---

I completely agree with you.

I don’t like the argument of “it only affects people with comorbidities”. That’s like 75% of the population and those people aren’t any less valuable. Some of these comorbid conditions have nothing to do with lifestyle and are merely bad luck.

I’m only using it in the discussion of kids because it’s pretty easy to identify comorbidities in kids and a much larger percentage of kids don’t have any comorbidities.

My point in response to crazy4lsu is that I don’t know if COVID is truly doing something sinister. For example, Ebola doesn’t care if you have a functional immune system. It’s going to make you hemorrhage out of every hole.

Or, are we seeing these immune system dysregulations in already dysregulated systems. It’s an important distinction because it may mean something in regards to repeated infections in otherwise healthy people.

quote:

---

My question is did these patients already have some innate dysfunction of their immune cells and COVID took advantage of that resulting in a severe case? Or did they have a completely normal well functioning immune system and COVID destroyed it?

---

I don't know about your experience, but on occasion, we've seen wide differences in the quality of infection in the same group of family members, which suggests HLA serotype mediation. I don't know if it will be as distinct as something like HLA-B27 and seronegative spondyloarthropathies, but I can see a possible association being discovered. There are situations where an illness can trigger an immune condition for which a patient may have a small predisposition, and perhaps COVID amplifies that disposition to unusual degrees.

quote:

---

Umm, if it successfully reduced hospitalizations and mortality in the sickest of our population, then clearly the vaccine is reducing mortality

How can you claim to be an MD and laugh at that?

Myself nor the other doctors in here are saying healthy young people have a material reduction in risk with the vaccine, but it absoutely through studies have shown it reduces hospitalizations and mortality at large.

---

But it is about the benefits of the vaccine to reduce the risk morbidity and mortality of CoVID.

Thus, if the risk of morbidity and mortality is extremely low then the benefit from the vaccine is also very low.

CDC tracker #cases and #deaths vs. age for the past 3 years

If you look at the numbers of cases and death broken down by age groups in the middle 2 charts:

age: #cases: #deaths %death:
0-4 Years 3,386,429 651 0.019%

5-11 Years 6,118,692 483 0.008%

12-15 Years 4,240,249 485 0.011%

16-17 Years 2,471,151 356 0.014%

How much benefit would the vaccine offer if the risk of dying from COVID is between 0.019% and 0.008%?

However:
50-64 Years 17,326,364 166,781 0.96%

65-74 Years 6,820,123 209,831 3.07%

75-84 Years 3,554,475 244,045 6.87%

85+ Years 1,740,111 252,599 14.5%

So for the 65+ population with risk of dying from COVID at ~3-15%, these are the people that will benefit from the vaccines (3-15 people/100 will die from CoVID).

It's not a one size fits all picture...