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re: Southern Baptist Convention: IVF is a sin
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:09 pm to pelicanpride
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:09 pm to pelicanpride
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This post was edited on 7/15/24 at 3:41 pm
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Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:13 pm to adavis
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This post was edited on 7/15/24 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:14 pm to Foch
quote:
You confuse man made (chemo, ventilators) with disordered (playing God by selectively culling the inputs of life, and sometimes life itself, to deliver what people think they deserve).
The mental gymnastics here lmao
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:18 pm to Foch
quote:
I have an interest in ending the destruction of innocent life at the most helpless of ages
Then go to the inner cities and witness to those kids. Those born “naturally” and equally forgotten by those who created them by mistake. Those naturally abandoned by their natural creators. So if a responsible family with the means to support a child wants to get a little help to create a child, I don’t cast judgement. I don’t have all the answers, but I’m perfectly fine with that. Some people think they have the answers and decide to throw a casting net on everyone around them. Jesus told Matthew that he’d make him “fishers of men.” You don’t draw fish with bitter bait.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:18 pm to North Dallas Tiger
quote:
Cats like you make me sorry I even expressed an opinion in this here thread, but I hope at least one person finds inspiration in my words herein... I'm out
More likely you can’t back up your “opinion” with any scripture. So you drop some passive aggressive drivel and rage quit. And bye.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:20 pm to Foch
quote:
Is it to play God by disrupting the ordered/normal means of a life?
Chemo unnaturally extends the life of a person who has cancer. That’s playing God.
A vent is literally breathing for a person.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:23 pm to adavis
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This post was edited on 7/15/24 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:24 pm to Jim Rockford
In other news,
Continues to hate everything that’s fun.
quote:
Southern Baptist Convention
Continues to hate everything that’s fun.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:25 pm to Foch
Yeah, chemo is “playing God” by your definition. It prolongs your life that God had designed to end sooner. Or… God gave us science and the ability to use it for good things.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:27 pm to JohnnyKilroy
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This post was edited on 7/15/24 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:28 pm to Foch
quote:
You wrongly draw an equivalence between positive actions to destroy/activities which are known to result in a high likelihood of killing life and natural actions which often have a sad ending in miscarriage.
Your logic is flawed because you don't identify the intent and deliberate action difference in the two contrasting processes.
20% of pregnancies end in miscarriages. Far more embryos fail to implant in the uterine wall. Anyone with a basic understanding of biology is aware of these facts. So when any woman sets out to convince a single child, she is taking a roughly 50% chance than an embryo will be wasted in the process. Therefore any woman seeking to conceive naturally takes positive action with a high likelihood of destroying an embryo.
Your logic is flawed because you lack a basic understanding of biology and do not recognize that each attempt at natural conception has a very likely that embryos will be destroyed.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:30 pm to adavis
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This post was edited on 7/15/24 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:31 pm to Foch
quote:
What is tomorrow's "bitter bait" we should avoid? One man/one woman in marriage? The
People like you. And at what point do we stop combining the New Testament and Old Testament? Because the same creation and science you use to justify your thinking comes from the Old Testament- the same collection of books that saw Jacob marrying two wives- Rachel and Leah, Lot sleeping with how two daughters, Issac having children with his wife and her handmaiden, David having multiple wives and having the husband of his adulteress killed. Where are we going here?
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:32 pm to Foch
quote:
Where does chemo result in the destruction of innocent life (embryos)? Where does chemo involve the selective approach to life which relies on "testing" to determine best sperm/egg or best (read: not disabled) embryo?
What does any of that have to do with an unnatural extension of life in subversion of God’s plan?
You can act like one intervention against nature is different than another, but it remains a subversion of nature to inject someone full of chemicals to keep the alive longer than nature and God intended.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:35 pm to pelicanpride
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This post was edited on 7/15/24 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:36 pm to Jim Rockford
I care what Jesus said, not a group of humans blinded by politics.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:45 pm to Foch
quote:
Again, you are failing to see the fallacy in your logic.
I see that I am flawed- we all are. I don’t claim to be 100% right, but I claim to know that. Again, the absolutes are that Jesus died for our sins and he commanded us to love others. Everything else is grey. I don’t try to play God- I don’t try to cast my interpretation of the grey on others. Some things don’t have answers that we can dictate. Some things are so unclear that they should be left up to a person’s private umbilical with God. What does a church accomplish by publicly denouncing something as a sin? Telling the sinners their doors aren’t open to them? Tell me how that keeps people out of hell.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:47 pm to Foch
We have 2 children through IVF. Tried every other avenue for years until it was our only option to have a family.
My wife is a physician, and also a devout catholic - we had many many discussions about the moral and spiritual obligations of this process. I had my reservations about the process as well.
But, after 2 successful pregnancies and beautiful kids - I no longer want to hear any opinion from anyone that has not gone through the process with their spouse.
Even an REI will admit that the science can only create an environment that improves the probability to create life. There is still quite a bit of the process that science can’t explain or control that creates a human life from a healthy embryo.
I could make the argument that God allowed his creation to be intelligent enough to help Christians like us to bring life into this world and nurture humans that aren’t as miserable as some of people in this thread.
My wife is a physician, and also a devout catholic - we had many many discussions about the moral and spiritual obligations of this process. I had my reservations about the process as well.
But, after 2 successful pregnancies and beautiful kids - I no longer want to hear any opinion from anyone that has not gone through the process with their spouse.
Even an REI will admit that the science can only create an environment that improves the probability to create life. There is still quite a bit of the process that science can’t explain or control that creates a human life from a healthy embryo.
I could make the argument that God allowed his creation to be intelligent enough to help Christians like us to bring life into this world and nurture humans that aren’t as miserable as some of people in this thread.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 9:57 pm to Foch
quote:
You can't understand that the miscarriages and instances of "destruction" that occur during normal conception are not occuring because of the positive actions of humans. They sadly occur for numerous reasons without intent or malice (i am obviously not talking about abortion here). Destruction of life within IVF is very much the result of an action
You can’t see that an attempt to become pregnant naturally is an action? Women work to build families knowing there is a high likelihood that some embryos will destroyed in the process. Women who utilize IVF also recognize there is a possibility that some embryos will be lost. I see no difference.
Tell me this - if IVF led to the same percentage of destroyed embryos as natural conception, would it then be morally allowable to you? I’m just trying to follow your logic here.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 10:02 pm to MikeAV8s
quote:
More likely you can’t back up your “opinion” with any scripture. So you drop some passive aggressive drivel and rage quit. And bye.
quote:
Think for a moment about the power to create a human life. The power of creation is sacred. Our power as humans to create a human life in the image of the Great Creator is very Holy and Divine. It's easy to see why. The power of creation is the power of God. Where in our Father God's creation (Mother Nature) do you see IVF?
This is as unnnatural as all the other stuff we all admonish in this, the month of June, in the year of our Lord, 2024...
Amen
and on some real shite everybody, that shite is against my religion, but I have nothing against anybody for anything
do you
I do me
This post was edited on 6/12/24 at 10:05 pm
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