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Message
re: So much for the effectiveness of gun control in Australia
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:00 pm to nola000
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:00 pm to nola000
Indeed, I did. He thought he was intelligently avoiding referring to gun violence among blacks skewing the numbers.
You think that's what he was referring to?
If you really think that is what he was referring to, then you should ask yourself the same question.
FTR - I think comparing the US to Australia or virtually any other country when discussing gun violence or possible solutions is silly for any number of reasons and thinking that restricting guns will make much, if any difference here is just as silly. And yes, I strongly support the second amendment.
BTW, while not entirely analogous, your logic is substantially correct and I agree with it.
quote:
What he was referring to is exactly the kind of factors that arent controlled for in these graphs and statistics.
Murder is illegal, we still have murder.
Robbery is illegal, we still have robbery.
Alcohol used to be illegal, we still had alcohol.
Drugs are illegal, we still have drugs.
Guns are illegal, ________________.
You think that's what he was referring to?
quote:
Or are you dense?
If you really think that is what he was referring to, then you should ask yourself the same question.
FTR - I think comparing the US to Australia or virtually any other country when discussing gun violence or possible solutions is silly for any number of reasons and thinking that restricting guns will make much, if any difference here is just as silly. And yes, I strongly support the second amendment.
BTW, while not entirely analogous, your logic is substantially correct and I agree with it.
2
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:00 pm to OweO
quote:
What are things looking like in Japan, when it comes to gun violence?
Yall are so simple minded its scary. Do yall really not understand all the different factors that go into what makes one country more prone to murder than another?
Here, yall want to talk about Australia so bad?
You asked for it.
Australian Gun Laws: The Statistics
This post was edited on 5/11/18 at 4:01 pm
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:02 pm to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:
See scared shitless. I'm sure you had all of those pics saved and ready.
Not at all.
All I had to do was type in a search engine, "gun confiscation quotes". Got a bunch.
Go ahead. try it.
quote:
When you go to bed at night, do you sleep with your gun, terrified a big bad lefty will break in, kick your arse and take it?
Deflection in the guise of humor.
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:04 pm to mdomingue
quote:Exactly.
any number of reasons and thinking that restricting guns will make much, if any difference here is just as silly. And yes, I strongly support the second amendment.
It won't work here. In other countries it does work.
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:05 pm to nola000
quote:Actually I was wrong about the 14 for the US, that was just the number of school shootings.
And?
You value lives less when they are lost in numbers less than 3?
How about I just count the number of mass shootings period regardless of number?
Australia has 7 total while the US has 114 school shootings alone in which someone was killed. And it’s actually WAY more then that for the US but it’s hard to get the numbers for non-gang related shootings.
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:08 pm to mdomingue
quote:
He thought he was intelligently avoiding referring to gun violence among blacks skewing the numbers.
Well the facts say they do and thats one of reasons why its so hard to compare different countries. The cultures are different.
quote:
You think that's what he was referring to?
No. The example I gave with the fill in the blank wasnt intended to have an association with his point. I was just using the second half of that post to reaffirm my point about gun confiscation, in general.
quote:
I think comparing the US to Australia or virtually any other country when discussing gun violence or possible solutions is silly for any number of reasons and thinking that restricting guns will make much, if any difference here is just as silly
This is the point Ive been trying to make all along.
quote:
BTW, while not entirely analogous, your logic is substantially correct and I agree with it.
...but I really do love the conflict and debate. Its enthralling.
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:11 pm to nola000
quote:
In your own words, explain that.
I initially didn't click the link because I don't think that would be the case, or at least not direct causality. I think another point that would be interesting would be to look at the number of homicides that were either committed by people who illegally owned guns or committed the homicide while in the midst of another illegal act, like robbery or dealing drugs.
I'm good with guns.
ETA: I meant I'm good with gun rights being fairly liberal (as in allowing fairly easy gun ownership to the law abiding), not that I am proficient with guns. I used to tell folks the safest place to be if I was firing a hand gun was right in front of what I was aiming at
. I was actually petty decent with a rifle back in the day, don't really own or shoot any more.
This post was edited on 5/11/18 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:12 pm to Geauxtiga
quote:
California has some strict gun laws too.
quote:
PALMDALE, Cali. — A 14-year-old student at a California high school was arrested Friday after bringing a gun to school and shooting a classmate
Exactly. You dont even have to go outside our own country to see that it doesnt and wont work here in the US. The 50 States conduct their own little real world study everyday of the week on what works and what doesnt. Thats the beauty of our Federalist Republic. You dont like the laws in one State? Move to another. May the best State win.
This post was edited on 5/11/18 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:15 pm to Yak
quote:
Exactly.
It won't work here. In other countries it does work.
Now we are mostly in agreement.
Im still not convinced its the strict laws that are working on curbing violence in those other countries, though.
Watch the video I posted on Australias statistics. Its short and informative and what you see there is pretty much the same in the other countries too.
This post was edited on 5/11/18 at 4:16 pm
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:18 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
Australia has 7 total while the US has 114 school shootings alone in which someone was killed. And it’s actually WAY more then that for the US but it’s hard to get the numbers for non-gang related shootings.
First, youre comparing two countries with completely different cultures.
Second, total numbers are useless when youre comparing two different sample sizes. The value in the statistics is in "per capita" as I demonstrated in my "swimming pool" example and again, there are still plenty factors that arent controlled for.
And will yall please go watch that Australia video I posted? Yall kept bitching that I was dodging Australia, so I dove in. Do the same.
This post was edited on 5/11/18 at 4:20 pm
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:20 pm to EmperorGout
quote:
Let’s compare the homicide by firearm rate in both countries and see how that comes out. Won’t be pretty for the USA I’m assuming
Take out the suicides and you might be surprised.
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:20 pm to nola000
quote:Well I mean the only thing I disagree with you on was the use of that chart
Now we are mostly in agreement.
quote:It's that plus cultural differences. Being a homogeneous country makes for different sets of family values and such. Many countries with strict gun laws are pretty homogeneous. They also usually happen to have a much lower population and don't have our version of a 2nd amendment.
Im still not convinced its the strict laws that are working on curbing violence in those other countries, though.
quote:I'll try to this weekend
Watch the video I posted on Australias statistics. Its short and informative and what you see there is pretty much the same in the other countries too.
This post was edited on 5/11/18 at 4:21 pm
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:27 pm to nola000
Every one of those quotes is probably 100% bullshite.
Be back in two minutes with one that shows trump saying he will shove every gun nola000 has up nola000's arse on August 23, 2018. Be about as legit as those pics you posted.
Be back in two minutes with one that shows trump saying he will shove every gun nola000 has up nola000's arse on August 23, 2018. Be about as legit as those pics you posted.
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:29 pm to Yak
quote:
Well I mean the only thing I disagree with you on was the use of that chart
You were expecting that I was responding to something I wasnt. Sometimes Im not very clear in my posting as people often misunderstand my intentions.
quote:
Being a homogeneous country makes for different sets of family values and such. Many countries with strict gun laws are pretty homogeneous.
Yes.
YES.
YES!!
I mention this all the time. Its makes for a completely different playing field. I love multi-culturalism but its not without its pitfalls.
quote:
They also usually happen to have a much lower population
Thats already controlled for when you discuss these topics only in terms of "per capita" which is why I always do. Im always suspicious of people when they only use total numbers to make their point.
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:31 pm to nola000
quote:
Second, total numbers are useless when youre comparing two different sample sizes. The value in the statistics is in "per capita"
There are 0.18 gun related homicides per 100K people in Australia. It’s 4.62 for the US.
Anyway my original response was to the link OP posted in which he was trying to act like Australia was somewhat comparable mass shooting numbers. I’m NOT saying the same gun control would work in the US. I KNOW there are other factors to consider to when it comes to the US. I just think OP is dumb for acting like it hasn’t made a noticeable difference in Australia. Again not saying it would make a massive difference in the US.
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:45 pm to nola000
quote:
Well the facts say they do and thats one of reasons why its so hard to compare different countries. The cultures are different.
The single most valid point there is in this debate when other countries are involved. Most of those countries are one or more of the following:
A: Much smaller geographically and/or in population, thereby easier to control certain things on many levels
B: Have a much more homogenous population, eliminating some of the flashpoints that initiate at least some of the gun violence and underlying (right or wrong) resentment that propagates that forward.
C: Much lower population density, allowing for less interaction overall (think Australia, they have 5 metro areas over 1 million people, the US has 60, 12 of which are larger than Australia's largest)
Just my 2 cents.
quote:
but I really do love the conflict and debate. Its enthralling.
I'm really trying not to be that guy
It is in my nature though...
Posted on 5/11/18 at 4:54 pm to 1BamaRTR
quote:
Anyway my original response was to the link OP posted in which he was trying to act like Australia was somewhat comparable mass shooting numbers.
Not sure where you get that idea. My point is that Australia with its strict gun control laws is not immune to the consequences it attempts to avoid. In fact the opposite is true, gun violence is slowly on the rise. It's amazing though that everytime gun control comes up in conversation, Australia gets thrown in as if it is a gun-free utopia, yet when the myth is attacked the meltdown ensues.
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