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re: Running a generator through a dryer outlet
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:02 pm to nicholastiger
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:02 pm to nicholastiger
quote:
these generators they are putting on houses were not designed to run for an extended period of time like a week or two
Found the guy that wants a whole house generator but can't justify it.
0
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:03 pm to AwgustaDawg
pulling the meter is serious overkill and the first mention of it in here started all this crap.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:04 pm to lsu777
quote:
no, turning main breaker does same thing but still should pull meter anyways
Neither will isolate the grounded conductor from the utility except in rare cases where the meter will. Not normal though but there are some meters that break the neutral as well as the phase conductors.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:06 pm to TheDeathValley
Those devices are not sufficient to isolate the grounded conductor. They are approved in many jurisdictions by the NEC but not by the utility company.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:08 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Neither will isolate the grounded conductor from the utility except in rare cases where the meter will. Not normal though but there are some meters that break the neutral as well as the phase conductors.
There are no 2S meter applications that break the neutral conductor.
All parishes in Louisiana require an electrical inspection when the meter base seal is broken. If the utility company finds it broken, they can hit you with tampering and refuse to connect you until you get an inspection and permit.
ETA: 2S is the residential meter form that 99.9% of you have.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 1:09 pm
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:11 pm to Hangover Haven
quote:
I have a 30A backfeed system on my house. It's basically an outside dryer outlet with its own breaker.
Paying someone to do it wrong, or doing it wrong yourself. This is probably the worst thing in the whole thread. You spent time/money, at for which at no extra cost, you could have installed the right thing, then still went ahead and put the wrong thing
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:12 pm to Motorboat
quote:
pulling the meter is serious overkill and the first mention of it in here started all this crap.
It will accomplish NOTHING that flipping the main break or opening the disconnect will accomplish. It is also illegal in every jurisdiction in the country. The meter can belongs to the customer. The meter belongs to the utility company and they are serious about customers not fricking with their equipment. When you cut the tag off you have violated the law. I have done it THOUSANDS of times and I have been taken to task for doing it more times than I can count. There is no need to do it, opening the main or disconnect will isolate the phase conductors as effectively...none of these, including pulling the meter, will isolate the neutral except in very rare meter cans.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:14 pm to bee Rye
quote:
This is probably the worst thing in the whole thread. You spent time/money, at for which at no extra cost, you could have installed the right thing, then still went ahead and put the wrong thing
The right way to do it is to put an appropriately sized generator plug on one side of a transfer switch, with your utility service on the other side. The load of the transfer goes to your panel box and feeds your house. You are not pulling meters, turning off breakers....just flipping a transfer and plugging in your generator.
This completely isolates your generator supply from utility supply.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 1:15 pm
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:14 pm to SaintEB
quote:
There are no 2S meter applications that break the neutral conductor.
All parishes in Louisiana require an electrical inspection when the meter base seal is broken. If the utility company finds it broken, they can hit you with tampering and refuse to connect you until you get an inspection and permit.
ETA: 2S is the residential meter form that 99.9% of you have.
It has been the industry norm for about 30 years nationwide. That said some co-opts still use a few meter cans that have lugs for the neutral. It is not common.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:16 pm to SaintEB
quote:
All parishes in Louisiana require an electrical inspection when the meter base seal is broken. If the utility company finds it broken, they can hit you with tampering and refuse to connect you until you get an inspection and permit.
The LC area electrical grid was so devastated after Laura the electric companies didn’t care if you had a permit or not. If you had a pole in the ground connected to the power lines they were lighting it up. It was your one free chance to put your own meter base in without permits.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 1:20 pm
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:18 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
hat said some co-opts still use a few meter cans that have lugs for the neutral. It is not common.
No meter manufacturer makes a residential meter with a neutral lug. Those are not used at all anymore and if ran across, would be required to be changed out.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:19 pm to SaintEB
quote:
The right way to do it is to put an appropriately sized generator plug on one side of a transfer switch, with your utility service on the other side. The load of the transfer goes to your panel box and back feeds your house. You are not pulling meters, turning off breakers....just flipping a transfer and plugging in your generator.
This completely isolates your generator supply from utility supply.
This is the ONLY legal way to do it according to the AHJ AND Utility companies. There are some AHJs which do allow the "lockout" devices on the main breaker. That does not alleviate the utility customer of the responsibility to not create a situation where the unbalanced load from their separately derived source sends back to the utility company's transformer. I doubt seriously that ANY utility company in the US would not have an issue with their customers using those devices and to my knowledge failing to isolate the grounded conductor is against the law in every jurisdiction. What you do downstream from the meter can is yours and your AHJs business. What goes on upstream from the meter can is the utility company's business. If you do not open up ALL conductors you are still connected to their system.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:20 pm to SaintEB
quote:
No meter manufacturer makes a residential meter with a neutral lug. Those are not used at all anymore and if ran across, would be required to be changed out.
I agree. I have not seen one in years.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:21 pm to redstick13
quote:
The LC area electrical grid was so devastated after Laura the electrical companies didn’t care if you had a permit or not. If you had a pole in the ground connected to the power lines they were lighting it up. It was your one free chance to put your own meter base in without permits.
This may have been the case, but I promise you the utility company serviceman would not plug the meter in if something looked wrong. That is a huge hazard. With that said, there are some flat out lazy inspection services out there that miss all sorts of obvious stuff.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:21 pm to N2cars
quote:
I don't know why people do half-assed shite down here.
It's in my DNA
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:21 pm to loopback
quote:
What size generator would I need to power my whole house? Including my central AC.
I have a 9500 which theoretically would power my house AC. I won't do it though. There were plenty of AC repairman in the neighborhood after Ida because people tried running their AC on the generator.
I bought a couple of window units to use for this storm.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:26 pm to redstick13
quote:
The LC area electrical grid was so devastated after Laura the electric companies didn’t care if you had a permit or not. If you had a pole in the ground connected to the power lines they were lighting it up. It was your one free chance to put your own meter base in without permits.
Permits and inspections are one side of the equation. Anything from the line side of the meter, including the meter itself, belongs to the Utility company. The AHJ has no regulatory authority over the Utility. Everything on the line side of the meter can including the meter itself is the property of the utility. If the grounded conductor is not isolated there will be current present at the center tap of their transformer from a separately derived source...any and all generators. If they encounter that load they can and do make cases against people. It happens. They are 2 separate entities, one regulates what is on the load side of the meter, the other regulates what is on the line side. The tag on the meter can also belongs to the utility. Cutting it will almost certainly result in a fine no matter the reason. I have done it thousands of times. I have been taken to task for it, including being threatened with arrest, more times than I can count. I have avoided any fines or arrests for having a damned good reason for doing it....to avoid damage to life and property. That is not a guarantee....they have and will continue to make cases against people using that as an excuse.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:37 pm to Sao
quote:
I can't picture how using that outlet and breaker powers additional runs.
Each leg of the breaker box is 110V. Both together is 220V. The 220 volt circuit breakers are connected to both bars where the 110 is just connected to one and tied into the neutral.
Dryer is 220. It would energize both bars. Therefore everything else in the panel would be hot. You would have to remember to shut off the breaker to high drawing appliances like a stove, water heater, Central A/C, etc. only run what the circuit of the dryer can provide.
Keep the main breaker off when running the generator and ground the generator to the ground rod next to the meter base.
All set. You could also wire it through an electric stove outlet if it’s closer to the outside. Same thing.
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:39 pm to Zephyrius
quote:
I have a 9500 which theoretically would power my house AC. I won't do it though.
It’s not that the generator can…. It’s also if the circuit connecting the generator to the breaker panel can. Remember that.
Posted on 9/10/24 at 1:39 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:Is this accurate?
It doesn't matter if the drier has a neutral (30 amp 240 volt 4 wire) or not (30 amp 240 Volt 3 wire) either way any unbalanced load must go to ground somehow and that somehow is going to be through the neutral to the utility companies transformers center tap.
My understanding is that if your load is balanced then current will flow through your two hots, and if the load is unbalanced then some current will flow through the neutral back to the generator. I suppose some current will flow through the utility neutral/ground rather than the neutral conductor to the generator, but it will be a very small amount, correct?
This post was edited on 9/10/24 at 1:42 pm
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