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re: OTD in 1914: Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophie were assassinated
Posted on 6/28/18 at 12:12 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
Posted on 6/28/18 at 12:12 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
I took a trip through the Czech republic years ago and visited the Terezin concentration camp. I did not know that was where they held Gavrilo Princip (the assasin) until he died of TB.
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Posted on 6/28/18 at 12:26 pm to rt3
The kings of Britain, Germany, and Russia were all related to each other, they were cousins through Queen Victoria.
King George of England and Tzar Nicholas of Russia could’ve passed as twins.
Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany and Tzar Nicholas wrote each other all the way until the start of the war.
King George of England and Tzar Nicholas of Russia could’ve passed as twins.
Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany and Tzar Nicholas wrote each other all the way until the start of the war.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 12:32 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Go listen to blueprint for Armageddon if you haven’t
I'm listening to it right now, probably my 5th time through. It's the best podcast I've ever heard.
What's interesting is that a major war was nearly inevitable. But the outcome was very uncertain. If the Russians don't split their armies and walk into an ambush they may have taken Berlin very early; war over. On the other hand if England stays out (and they nearly did) Germany probably knocks France out early. Dan Carlin talks about how Germany winning quickly would have been a MUCH better outcome for everyone. Lots of lives saved, no Russian Revolution, no WWII.
The outcome of WWI was probably the worst possible result; except maybe for the US who made a lot of money. But then we got caught up in WWII and the Cold War so that's debatable.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 12:39 pm to Tigris
quote:
Dan Carlin talks about how Germany winning quickly would have been a MUCH better outcome for everyone. Lots of lives saved, no Russian Revolution, no WWII.
That’s pretty damn debatable imo. Who’s to say that France wouldn’t have had another Napoleon or Hitler type rise up there instead of Germany? I think the Russian Revolution happens either way also.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 12:48 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
WWI had been inevitable since the 1870 Franco-Prussian War.
Not necessarily. Britain stayed out of that war, wanted nothing to do with it. The problem was the system of alliances that had developed in the early 20th century.
What I found interesting was that the Hapsburg model of using marriage as a way to stop this kind of thing failed.
Consider that the Czar of Russia, The King of England and the Kaiser of Germany were all first cousins, the grand children of Queen Victoria, with all of these guys also having titles in the other's country. Wilhelm and Nicholas were actual officers in the British army and landed gentry. Hell a month before the war began they were all vacationing together.
The Serbs started this problem.... then Austria declares war on Serbia......then the Russians say they will back up Serbia and then it all goes to hell
Posted on 6/28/18 at 12:54 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
Britain stayed out of that war, wanted nothing to do with it.
Pretty much all Germany had to do was not fricking destroy Belgium’s neutrality and who knows if Britain even gets involved on the scale they did?
frick it, I’m going back to listen to Blueprint for Armageddon again.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 12:55 pm to JumpingTheShark
quote:
Dan Carlin said that this specific event astronomically shaped history as we know it to this day and I agree with him.
Came for the obligatory Dan Carlin plug.
It's crazy how the gun jammed and they failed. And then Princip (I think?) just ran into them again and got shots off. It almost didn't happen. Was it a gun that jammed or a bomb that didn't work? Can't remember.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 12:58 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
WWI had been inevitable since the 1870 Franco-Prussian War. Germany wanted to be the big swinging dick in Europe and Britain and France were having none of it. If this hadn't lit the fuse something else would.
Without Bismarck and Prussia maintaining a balance of power, there would have been war sooner.
German policy after Bismarck left did become more aggressive but no more than Russia. And France was aching for revenge. The "It was Germany's fault" narrative is as inaccurate now as it was in November 1918.
WWII? Different story.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:00 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
It's crazy how the gun jammed and they failed. And then Princip (I think?) just ran into them again and got shots off. It almost didn't happen. Was it a gun that jammed or a bomb that didn't work? Can't remember.
No, the original bomb worked, but it was swatted away by security and ended up basically exploding one car later.
Then for some idiotic reason, FF decided he wanted to go to bitch out the mayor or something and went down the wrong street, the car stalled and Gavrilo Princip just so happened to be eating a sandwich a mere 20 feet away.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:05 pm to tigahbruh
Bismarck is really one of the most remarkable Germans of all time.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:17 pm to SCLSUMuddogs
quote:
There are just too many things that would be different if Princip didn't shoot Ferdinand
Let's not forget New York taking over from London as the financial capitol of the world during WWI.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:44 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
I think the Russian Revolution happens either way also.
Maybe not but more than likely it unravels in a completely different manner. The germans were pushing for the revolution to make their fight in WW1 easier, they knew if they could get russia out the fight they might be able to win. Germany practically hand delivered Lenin to russia from switzerland to further stir up the people. Its possible if the war ends quickly the russian people are so fed up that they don't try to make a change in government for many many years. the russian people were pushed to the brink by the toll of the war.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:48 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
Then for some idiotic reason, FF decided he wanted to go to bitch out the mayor or something and went down the wrong street, the car stalled and Gavrilo Princip just so happened to be eating a sandwich a mere 20 feet away.
I think he wanted to visit the people that had been hurt in the explosion and his driver didn’t know where the frick the hospital was and they ended driving down a dead end street. Because it was 1914 and all cars were shite, the driver had to get out and manually crank the car to get it to reverse. And I think the sandwich part is a myth, more than likely Princip was getting drunk because he knew he was going to have either leave the country or kill himself because many of his co-conspirators had been captured already. One of the funnier parts of the whole story is that the dude that threw the bomb tried to kill himself with cyanide but the pill was expired and all it did was burn the shite out of his mouth and throat. He then tried to drown himself in a nearby river, but there was a serious drought on and the river was about 5 inches deep and was filled with sewage and trash. The cops eventually got to him, beat him senseless, and took him to jail. So he burned his mouth, sucked down a bunch of shite water, and got his arse beat and didn’t even kill the guy he was trying to kill.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 1:50 pm to rt3
quote:
plus the fact that all of the monarchs in Europe at the time were related in 1 way or another
I believe the King of England & the German Kaiser were cousins
Yes, along with The Kaiser Willhelm. They were all grandchildren of Queen Victoria. In fact right before the start of the War, thr King of England was visiting Germany for the opening of the Kiel canal. While their he reviewed and visited the German fleet wearing his own German Admiral uniform. He was also an honorary Field Marshall of the German Army.
This post was edited on 6/28/18 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 6/28/18 at 2:07 pm to BobBarker
quote:
Then for some idiotic reason, FF decided he wanted to go to bitch out the mayor or something
FF changed plans in order to visit the officer who was injured in the earlier assassination attempt. He did fuss at the mayor for lack of security concerning the bomb that was thrown at him, injuring said officer, though.
For all their plotting, the Black Hand was pretty inept.
Apis is a pretty slick figure, though. Almost like a stock villain from an action film.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 2:10 pm to BobBarker
quote:
So he burned his mouth, sucked down a bunch of shite water, and got his arse beat and didn’t even kill the guy he was trying to kill.
It’s hard out here for an Archduke assassin.
Posted on 6/28/18 at 3:01 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
frick it, I’m going back to listen to Blueprint for Armageddon again.
I feel your pain. What was also interesting is that the French at the outset wanted this war because they wanted Alsace back after losing it in he Franco- Prussian War....had prepared for a German invasion along their border. Problem was, the Germans knew this and the French began mobilisation at the behest of the Russians
Posted on 6/28/18 at 3:30 pm to Darth_Vader
There was a book written right before either world war 1 or world war 2 that had said that warfare had been vanquished forever due to trade. I think it was ww1. So a lot of people felt that way. But there were s bunch of people who didn’t. As usual, lots of people differ.
Also, pretty interesting, but while Western Europe and the US see WWI as a waste, large swaths of East Europe look fondly upon it due to so many peoples being freed from empire
Also, pretty interesting, but while Western Europe and the US see WWI as a waste, large swaths of East Europe look fondly upon it due to so many peoples being freed from empire
Posted on 6/29/18 at 9:17 am to athenslife101
quote:
large swaths of East Europe look fondly upon it due to so many peoples being freed from empire
Really, they went from one empire to a dictator. Eastern Europe has an almost 180 degree difference than Western Europe history wise.
Posted on 6/29/18 at 9:50 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Yes, along with The Kaiser Willhelm. They were all grandchildren of Queen Victoria.
Yep, before it was known as the House of Windsor, it was the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.
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