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Message
re: Optometry: LA HB 1065/SB 568: What if your Louisiana Eye Surgeon is NOT an MD?
Posted on 6/1/14 at 9:56 pm to LSUfan4444
Posted on 6/1/14 at 9:56 pm to LSUfan4444
quote:
This is Louisiana politics at its best. The citizens of the state and patient outcomes is an afterthought.
If outcomes is the ONLY thing you are worried about the citizens should be fine. Over 30,000 procedures done by Optometrists and NO reported consequences. When asked about this in Testimony no one was able to give ONE case where one of these procedures went wrong. The Oklahoma board of Optometry has gone on record saying no reported negative outcomes to date. How much more on positive outcomes can you want?
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Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:02 pm to Traffic Circle
that's a california bill. You are confused
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:05 pm to LATigerdoc
I'm not sure how 30K procedures could be done w/o 1 adverse outcome. That seems like one of those multiple choice extreme answers that is (almost) never the correct answer.
If you find me a surgeon in the state of Louisiana who claims to have done 30K surgeries w/o 1 adverse outcome / complication, I'd be amazed
If you find me a surgeon in the state of Louisiana who claims to have done 30K surgeries w/o 1 adverse outcome / complication, I'd be amazed
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:07 pm to LATigerdoc
quote:
to: Traffic Circle: You are confused
That's an understatement!
This post was edited on 6/1/14 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:08 pm to LATigerdoc
This post was edited on 6/1/14 at 10:09 pm
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:09 pm to LATigerdoc
quote:He would be lying.
If you find me a surgeon in the state of Louisiana who claims to have done 30K surgeries w/o 1 adverse outcome / complication, I'd be amazed
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:11 pm to LATigerdoc
quote:
I'm not sure how 30K procedures could be done w/o 1 adverse outcome. That seems like one of those multiple choice extreme answers that is (almost) never the correct answer.
In Oklahoma OD's were required to report the outcomes of all procedures the performed on patients to the Optometry Board for the first 20 years they were performing surgery. They have the records to back it up. With all the research the OMD's did how come they couldn't find one bad outcome?
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:20 pm to Da Hammer
what is an omd
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:22 pm to LATigerdoc
Most Medical Doctors do not have time to sit around and research past laser surgery procedure histories from patient charts which aren't anywhere near their office.
There's a lot of patients in Louisiana needing to be seen for their eye disease and not a tremendous amt of time to sit around and look up old surgery reports
There's a lot of patients in Louisiana needing to be seen for their eye disease and not a tremendous amt of time to sit around and look up old surgery reports
This post was edited on 6/1/14 at 10:23 pm
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:23 pm to Da Hammer
quote:
In Oklahoma OD's were required to report the outcomes of all procedures the performed on patients to the Optometry Board for the first 20 years they were performing surgery. They have the records to back it up. With all the research the OMD's did how come they couldn't find one bad outcome?
Here's an exerpt from a article:
quote:
Oklahoma became the first state to allow optometrists to perform some laser surgeries in 1998. That's also when lawmakers explicitly upheld their right to administer injections, remove eyelid lesions and prescribe an expanded list of medications. "The procedures we're doing are not technically involved," says David Cockrell, an optometrist in Stillwater and spokesman for the American Optometric Association. "We've never had a single case of a patient being harmed reported to the [state optometry] board. That's a pretty startling statistic."
It's also a misleading one, says ophthalmologist Dr. David Parke II, former head of the highly rated Dean McGee Eye Institute, based in Oklahoma City. "We had several patients come in with horrible complications from totally unnecessary surgical procedures," says Parke, now the executive vice president and CEO of the American Academy of Ophthalmology.
Pam Odum of Owasso, Okla., outside Tulsa, says she never would have gone to an optometrist for laser surgery had she known he was not a medical doctor. "I was almost blinded," says Odum, who sued Jan Jay Rigney for negligence and says his incompetence in performing a procedure to correct astigmatism and the homemade eye solution he gave her caused temporary blindness and permanent blind spots. "To this day, I have limited vision," Odum says. Rigney, who settled the case with Odum for an undisclosed sum, declined to comment.
Hell, even basic phelebotomy has a complication rate. Frankly, either their board or reporting methods are full of shite.
This post was edited on 6/1/14 at 10:26 pm
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:24 pm to LATigerdoc
I don't doubt that, but there were over 20 lobbyists working for the Ophthalmologists, and there is an executive director of the Louisiana Academy, then there is the national academy who sent one of their guys here for over three weeks. I would think they would have the time..... Wouldn't expect the doctors themselves to do that kind of research.
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:29 pm to Da Hammer
It's hard to convince a bunch of politicians who have already made their decision
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:30 pm to LATigerdoc
If you really think 30K surgeries could be done w/o a single complication, then you need to spend 1 week on a surgery rotation in a hospital and re-evaluate your beliefs.
Nolan Ryan never threw 30K straight strikes to my knowledge
Nolan Ryan never threw 30K straight strikes to my knowledge
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:34 pm to LATigerdoc
Then why couldn't the Ophthalmologists find one??
I would expect the same as you no way to do it without complication, but Medicine had a year to prepare for this bill and defeat it with sound arguments. They couldn't find the poor outcomes. If there are no poor outcomes to report then it makes it hard to argue that Optometrists teaching and training are poor. The point all along is that Optometrists are taught these procedures currently the fact there are no negative outcomes reported confirms that Optometric training is up to the standard.
I would expect the same as you no way to do it without complication, but Medicine had a year to prepare for this bill and defeat it with sound arguments. They couldn't find the poor outcomes. If there are no poor outcomes to report then it makes it hard to argue that Optometrists teaching and training are poor. The point all along is that Optometrists are taught these procedures currently the fact there are no negative outcomes reported confirms that Optometric training is up to the standard.
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:35 pm to Da Hammer
the standard is 8 years of training
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:37 pm to LATigerdoc
Did not read the whole thread, just the first 7 pages then jumped to the end.
Normally I am against most government restrictions and lean towards allowing the consumer to decide what they want. However, I think it is a risk move to allow non-doctors perform surgical procedures.
Some may argue that some Dr's are opposed to this move for monetary reasons and that is a reasonable position, however, EVERY optometrist is FOR this so they can make more money. While there is nothing wrong with making more money, I do not think this is a good idea.
Clearly the politicians are not making a call in the best interest of patients, but one that is motivated by money.
Normally I am against most government restrictions and lean towards allowing the consumer to decide what they want. However, I think it is a risk move to allow non-doctors perform surgical procedures.
Some may argue that some Dr's are opposed to this move for monetary reasons and that is a reasonable position, however, EVERY optometrist is FOR this so they can make more money. While there is nothing wrong with making more money, I do not think this is a good idea.
Clearly the politicians are not making a call in the best interest of patients, but one that is motivated by money.
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:39 pm to LATigerdoc
quote:
the standard is 8 years of training
How much of the first four years are devoted STRICTLY to the eye and performing these surgeries?
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:40 pm to novabill
Novabill hard to say this is a money grab the most expensive reimbursable procedure in this legislation is about $240. Would take a LOT of those to make a lot of money.
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:42 pm to Da Hammer
quote:
The point all along is that Optometrists are taught these procedures currently the fact there are no negative outcomes reported confirms that Optometric training is up to the standard.
There are comlplications even with the standard of care.
The fact that there are no reports of even one post procedure infection tells me all I need to know.
Posted on 6/1/14 at 10:46 pm to RadTiger
quote:This. It is legitimately impossible to never have any complications.
The fact that there are no reports of even one post procedure infection tells me all I need to know.
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