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Message
re: Operator vs. Engineer?
Posted on 4/26/18 at 12:03 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Posted on 4/26/18 at 12:03 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
150k? With what, 1200 hours of OT?
The operator that sits next to me made $152k with 800hrs OT
2
Posted on 4/26/18 at 12:06 am to wadewilson
quote:
I know at Exxon Mobil, operators make mid-80's. They bust their arse on turnarounds and they can take take home 6 figures.
Chemical engineers there make well into 6 figures.
Then Exxon operators get paid shitty. I worked around 350 hrs of OT last year and was at 6 figures around Halloween, and I'm only a 3rd year operator. There were older operators that I've seen make 150k+ with less than 600 hrs of OT. I mean that's bonuses included but still.
I know there will be people that say BS, but I have no reason to lie. Again, I'll add I want to go back to school to get my degree in Chem E to not work shift work. I'll gladly take the pay cut.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 12:31 am to bayoumuscle21
It's amazing how much people overestimate the amount of overtime we work. Every place has one or two overtime hogs but we don't all do it. I made well into six figures averaging 50 hours a week.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 12:35 am to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
In what world are engineers not working weekends. I will concede that they don’t have to work nights ever, but that’s because they are consumed by these plants for 6-7 day’s a week working 10-12 hours per day.
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Posted on 4/26/18 at 1:19 am to Ruff Desperado
quote:
If there was a strike in operations, I feel confident that I could go to the overpass on College, kick over a box, drag out a bum, and have the dude (or she) trained before ops even sets up the picket line.
This is the most rediculous thing I’ve ever seen. If that was the case we wouldn’t be paid over $100k a year. There’s plenty of guys that got hired in with 4 year degrees just to get ran off because they couldn’t qualify.
Mechanical Aptitude and troubleshooting skills are not as common as you think. There are operators out there that are idiots but the only reason they have a job is because of the good operators that carry the weight.
If said bum was surrounded by great operators he would be a nuisance to them but would be fine. In the event of a strike, all those great operators are gone and he wouldn’t last a week without getting himself or someone else hurt.
Some facilities won’t even allow new hires to touch a valve before they make a year with the company. And might not work solo until he makes 18 months.
This post was edited on 4/26/18 at 1:20 am
Posted on 4/26/18 at 5:08 am to TulaneUVA
quote:
Depends on operator pay rates and contract if they are union. You may be surprised that some sites don’t have a pay scale for union based on years of employment. A new hire operator makes the same per hour as one in their 30th year. Now the older operator will have more qualifications, could be promoted to a higher level of step up pay if they are willing, and will have first dibs on OT, but the posted job pays the same. Engineering starting out will make more in terms of base pay and they are salaried. Different companies have different raises and compensation structure so it’s hard to answer. But long story short, pay ceiling is much much higher for an engineer regardless of career path. Like absurdly higher and especially more so if they go upper management. Short term (within the first 10 years) the operator can make more than an engineer by working OT. But by the 20-30th years, the engineer will be doubling the operator base salary if not more.
T/U nailed it
Posted on 4/26/18 at 5:10 am to BRVMAX
quote:yes, yes they do
Engineers put in more than 40 hrs a week..
Posted on 4/26/18 at 5:45 am to Ric Flair
I'm an engineer who eventually moved into management. I make $150+ per year and rarely ever work more than a 40 hour week. I also chose not to work in a f'ing plant so there's that.
Engineering is a career. An operator is a job. It makes a big difference over time.
Engineering is a career. An operator is a job. It makes a big difference over time.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 5:47 am to Ric Flair
I say hands down Engineers have the better job. They have much better opportunity for advancement, job opportunities and better job mobility.
Now everybody saying engineers only work 40hrs a week is laughable. I am sure some do that work on projects and at engineering firms, but that’s not everybody.
When things aren’t running smoothly our process engineers are out here day and night 12-16 hours at times. I regularly talk to them on the phone and receive emails all times of the night and weekends. None of this is a regular thing, but there are many that put in a lot more than 40hrs a week.
Not to mention some of these guys have a vested interest in the process and how things run. It could very well cost them there job.
Now everybody saying engineers only work 40hrs a week is laughable. I am sure some do that work on projects and at engineering firms, but that’s not everybody.
When things aren’t running smoothly our process engineers are out here day and night 12-16 hours at times. I regularly talk to them on the phone and receive emails all times of the night and weekends. None of this is a regular thing, but there are many that put in a lot more than 40hrs a week.
Not to mention some of these guys have a vested interest in the process and how things run. It could very well cost them there job.
This post was edited on 4/26/18 at 7:26 am
Posted on 4/26/18 at 6:02 am to SouthTiger504
quote:
The operator that sits next to me made $152k with 800hrs OT
I cant imagine working 800 hours of overtime in a year, that sounds so freakin miserable. You realize that’s working an extra 20 weeks? Does he ever go on a vacation?
Posted on 4/26/18 at 6:20 am to TitleistProV1X
Most of the guys working 800hrs of OT are doing it voluntarily. There are some people that just love money or have no life. It’s not uncommon to have the person at the top of the list with 800hrs. Then have the person at the bottom with 20hrs for the whole year.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 6:37 am to TitleistProV1X
An Engineer that works a 9-80 schedule will work around 225 days a year, holidays excluded. An operator working his normal DuPont shift schedule will work 182 days a year, holidays included. Anything outside of that schedule for an operator is OT. Let’s just forget about vacation because the engineer and Op will have the same. I’ve seen base pay for ops anywhere from 70 to 95k. Starting Chem Engineers are around 75-90k at my particular company.So let’s say you work these 225 days just like the engineer, that is 516 hours of OT which is roughly 33k, that is being based off of an Op making $43 an hour which is in the ballpark. Yes, there are Ops that can make 200+, but they live at the plant and have no life.
Making 120-150k a year and having plenty of time off is a respectable living regardless of what your title is, engineer, operator, nurse, whatever. At the end, obviously an engineer will be further along and will probably have more options, but an operator probably never had any student debt, and started making more money early on as you reach a ceiling almost immediately. Also putting all that money into a 401k does wonders when you put it in very early in your career.
They both have their perks, and they both have their negatives. The company you work for and the benefits they provide is the game changer for me. Pensions, stock options, and a high 401k match can really boost your career and allow you to get out early if you are diligent enough to put away money. I can say this, at some of the majors, (Shell, Exxon, BP, Chevron) you don’t have to have an engineering degree to move to management or have the opportunity to have a great salary day job.
Making 120-150k a year and having plenty of time off is a respectable living regardless of what your title is, engineer, operator, nurse, whatever. At the end, obviously an engineer will be further along and will probably have more options, but an operator probably never had any student debt, and started making more money early on as you reach a ceiling almost immediately. Also putting all that money into a 401k does wonders when you put it in very early in your career.
They both have their perks, and they both have their negatives. The company you work for and the benefits they provide is the game changer for me. Pensions, stock options, and a high 401k match can really boost your career and allow you to get out early if you are diligent enough to put away money. I can say this, at some of the majors, (Shell, Exxon, BP, Chevron) you don’t have to have an engineering degree to move to management or have the opportunity to have a great salary day job.
This post was edited on 4/26/18 at 6:40 am
Posted on 4/26/18 at 7:01 am to Ric Flair
Want the reality?
I'm an engineer in the Ops department in a chem plant. You don't work an 8 hour day if you want to be worth a damn. You may take home 150k after 10-12 years. I'm 5 years in and I'm in the low 100's base so I can see that.
And you're on call 24/7. It isn't written that way, you're technically on call every few weeks... but lets be real here, it is your unit, you're responsible for it... you're on call indefinitely.
Our operators don't sit on their thumbs and pull 150k with overtime. That shite is earned. Sure there is a lot of hurry up and wait, but when the shite hits the fan, it hits these guys the hardest. And yes, there are F-250's a plenty.
I'm an engineer in the Ops department in a chem plant. You don't work an 8 hour day if you want to be worth a damn. You may take home 150k after 10-12 years. I'm 5 years in and I'm in the low 100's base so I can see that.
And you're on call 24/7. It isn't written that way, you're technically on call every few weeks... but lets be real here, it is your unit, you're responsible for it... you're on call indefinitely.
Our operators don't sit on their thumbs and pull 150k with overtime. That shite is earned. Sure there is a lot of hurry up and wait, but when the shite hits the fan, it hits these guys the hardest. And yes, there are F-250's a plenty.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 7:15 am to fjlee90
It all boils down to blue collar vs white collar. One job you are being paid to "do" and the other job you are being paid to "think".
As the other poster mentioned, one is a job, and the other is a career. Easy enough to figure out which is which.
Each person needs to decide for themselves what they are trying to get out of their life, and what is important to them.
As the other poster mentioned, one is a job, and the other is a career. Easy enough to figure out which is which.
Each person needs to decide for themselves what they are trying to get out of their life, and what is important to them.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 7:18 am to weedGOKU666
quote:
This is exactly what I’ve seen. I’m a ChemE (currently working as a Mfg Engineer, same as Process Engineer), and I’ve been out of school almost 4 years now (lightly experienced).
Folks in my experience bracket (0 - 5 years) are pulling down 70 - 100, depending on role. As a mfg engineer my work hours are heavily beholden to how the process is running. On good weeks, I’ll put in 40 or slightly less and be happy. When shite hits the fan, I can hit 60+ working nights and/or weekends as needed. Worst I’ve done so far was 21 hours straight at the plant one time. I’m also on call basically 24/7, so getting woke up at 3 AM every once in a while is a thing.
The highly experienced (25+ year) engineers that are still in technical roles are probably around 130 - 150. You can get up to the 175+ range if you’re an SME/Engineering Fellow. Most of these guys work a more consistent schedule and are around 50 hours a week (though this can change a lot based on role too).
The real big money in ChemE comes when you move into management. Plant management and senior management are in the 200 - 300 range with gigantic (20+%) performance bonuses. To get there, though, you gotta absolutely bust your arse and politic with the best of them. This huge pay comes with a massive pile of stress to boot on top of basically always being plugged in to the plant. I dunno how these guys ever unwind, they basically eat/sleep/breathe the plant/business. If you’re really really good, you could eventually parlay this experience into a VP role, and the sky’s the limit from there.
The operators I work with day in and day out are great folks, and they get paid well for what they do. A big thing about their role that gets underestimated is that when they walk out of the gate, they’re done until their next shift. Doesn’t matter what shape the place was in when they left - they don’t have to think about work at all when they leave. This is what I’m most jealous of.
This guy gets it.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 7:23 am to 100851
quote:This response tells me that you don't know shite about what goes on in a plant with engineers or operators. If there was ever an armchair reply from the hip, this is it.
It all boils down to blue collar vs white collar. One job you are being paid to "do" and the other job you are being paid to "think".
As the other poster mentioned, one is a job, and the other is a career. Easy enough to figure out which is which.
Each person needs to decide for themselves what they are trying to get out of their life, and what is important to them.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 7:24 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
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I did the same reading that comment. In three years in Telecom, I have never worked weekends or holidays
Posted on 4/26/18 at 7:27 am to fjlee90
I'm posting to thank everyone for being part of this thread and providing me with some entertainment this morning. And to say that in refineries I've worked in (such as marathon) mechanical, chemical, and electrical engineers are all starting out at 90k+. And they're clearly not a major.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 7:28 am to 50_Tiger
quote:
did the same reading that comment. In three years in Telecom, I have never worked weekends or holidays
Yeah, but you're getting telecom pay.
Posted on 4/26/18 at 7:30 am to Ric Flair
Engineers coming in don't make much, maybe 70,000. They have a higher pay ceiling than an operator in time but the operators with OT make more than most engineers. Once the engineer moves into a leader role they jump way up in pay.
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