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Started By
Message
re: Off Duty cops (NYPD) want to carry handguns into NFL stadiums
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:00 pm to MikeBRLA
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:00 pm to MikeBRLA
quote:
While that my be true, we both know cops don't think the laws apply to them and will drink. That is my main issue with this.
I disagree. Broad generalizations are a paintbrush employed by fools.
1
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:02 pm to SimonSlick
quote:
I piss people off every day. Why should he have rights that I do not?
Do you arrest felons every day? Whether you like it or not the qualifications to become a Peace Officer far exceed those required to have a CC license. Cops can carry, and will likely win this suit against the NFL, because Congress has passed a law allowing them to carry.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:02 pm to MikeBRLA
Very unlikely that the NFL will win out in these situations, whether in NY or Minnesota or wherever, unless the NFL actually owns any of the stadiums.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:03 pm to theenemy
quote:
DanTiger
Im just saying I don't think that the whole "criminals I arrested..." Rational doesn't work when you look at the grand scheme of it.
quote:
would you have a
problem with the cop's excuse of I'm off duty for not stopping it
No, he's not getting paid to stop it so if he chooses to not put himself at risk why should I look down on him anymore than a regular person.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:04 pm to MikeBRLA
quote:
He is free to stop it just as any other citizen is. No special rights needed.
But the off duty cop is expected to. A normal citizen isn't. The normal citizen isn't going to have complaints filed on him due to his decision not to act.
An officer loses the freedom to choose whether to act or not. They are expected to act.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:06 pm to brass2mouth
quote:
Im just saying I don't think that the whole "criminals I arrested..." Rational doesn't work when you look at the grand scheme of it.
That was the justification for the current Federal law and not mine.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:06 pm to theenemy
Exactly, if the officer just called the on duty cops and waited, and whoever was being attacked got severely injured or died, the backlash would be huge and this cop would get crucified by the media and the general public.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:11 pm to DanTiger
Dan, you are fighting the good fight my man. Unfortunately it's a waste of breath.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:11 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
My question is what is the need? Are there brutal beatings happening at such a rate that an off-duty cop needs to be carrying? Lets think of the consequences here. Does anyone know when is the last time a armed cop or security guard fired his gun in a stadium full of people? Do we really want an off duty cop pulling out his gun and firing it at someone with so many innocent bystanders around? This sounds like a horrible idea.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:13 pm to UpToPar
Outstanding logic. Based on that notion, there should be no armed personnel at many mass gatherings.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:14 pm to DanTiger
quote:
I disagree. Broad generalizations are a paintbrush employed by fools.
And Ad hominem attracts are used when one doesn't have an actual argument to make.
You aren't seriously trying to claim that LEOs don't think they are special are you? Hell, that is what this whole issue is about. They want privileges/rights while off duty, that others don't enjoy. I.E. Special treatment.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:14 pm to UpToPar
quote:
My question is what is the need? Are there brutal beatings happening at such a rate that an off-duty cop needs to be carrying? Lets think of the consequences here. Does anyone know when is the last time a armed cop or security guard fired his gun in a stadium full of people? Do we really want an off duty cop pulling out his gun and firing it at someone with so many innocent bystanders around? This sounds like a horrible idea.
Read my numerous posts on this in this very thread. Would you have him walk back to his car with his wife and kid, unarmed, while a felon he locked up is following him?
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:16 pm to UpToPar
quote:
Are there brutal beatings happening at such a rate that an off-duty cop needs to be carrying
There is a lot of potential violence, the baseball game beating where the father died or had permanent severe brain damage comes to mind.
This idea just fits in along with my personal beliefs that we need more people who are aware of their surroundings and equipped with the knowledge to handle dangerous situations all over the place. I think that high ranking military and very high ranking law enforcement officials should be allowed to carry on planes.
America is an easy target because everyone feels so safe. I think all people need to be more aware of what is going on in this day and age, and the off duty military and police officials are sort of the first line of defense if you will.
This post was edited on 3/11/14 at 2:17 pm
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:16 pm to toosleaux
quote:
Outstanding logic. Based on that notion, there should be no armed personnel at many mass gatherings.
Where in my post did I suggest nobody should be armed? You obviously need armed personnel to deter any type of major threat. My question is where is the need for more armed people? Are there issues right now in football stadiums that this would solve, or are the possible consequences worse than any potential solution?
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:18 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Read my numerous posts on this in this very thread. Would you have him walk back to his car with his wife and kid, unarmed, while a felon he locked up is following him?
This is a legitimate concern, but what is the difference between him walking back to his car from the game and him walking back to the car from a bar?
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:19 pm to MikeBRLA
quote:
And Ad hominem attracts are used when one doesn't have an actual argument to make.
I made a statement I believe to be true and was careful not to direct it at anyone. If the shoe fits...
quote:
You aren't seriously trying to claim that LEOs don't think they are special are you?
I would say that they are special. Here is the definition of that word for you:
spe·cial (spesh'?l)
adj.
1. Surpassing what is common or usual; exceptional: a special occasion; a special treat.
2.
a. Distinct among others of a kind: a special type of paint; a special medication for arthritis.
b. Primary: His special satisfaction comes from volunteer work.
3. Peculiar to a specific person or thing; particular: my own special chair; the special features of a computer.
4.
a. Having a limited or specific function, application, or scope: a special role in the mission.
b. Arranged for a particular occasion or purpose:
quote:
They want privileges/rights while off duty, that others don't enjoy. I.E. Special treatment.
I disagree. There is already a Federal law in place and they simply would like the NFL to follow that law.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:20 pm to UpToPar
quote:
This is a legitimate concern, but what is the difference between him walking back to his car from the game and him walking back to the car from a bar?
One usually doesn't take the kids to a bar.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:20 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:
This idea just fits in along with my personal beliefs that we need more people who are aware of their surroundings and equipped with the knowledge to handle dangerous situations all over the place. I think that high ranking military and very high ranking law enforcement officials should be allowed to carry on planes.
Okay, so we are going to draw the line at "high ranking officials"? I think some of you may be surprised at the varying levels of competence of some young police officers. I would have no problem drawing a line between the ones we believe are competent to carry and the ones who are not, but how do you determine that?
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:22 pm to UpToPar
This really isn't the thread for that, that is why I said high ranking, to avoid the competence question. And those are just my personal beliefs not specific to this situation.
Posted on 3/11/14 at 2:23 pm to UpToPar
quote:
Where in my post did I suggest nobody should be armed? You obviously need armed personnel to deter any type of major threat. My question is where is the need for more armed people? Are there issues right now in football stadiums that this would solve, or are the possible consequences worse than any potential solution?
Since the start of the NFL how many off duty police officers have wounded or killed innocent bystanders during football games?
Why the need for the rule?
This is just another step toward removing guns from the public.
If a trained police officer can't carry a gun in public while off duty why should a normal citizen.
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