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Posted on 9/14/20 at 8:54 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
Hmmm. Point of fact the C8 doesn't have an LS either, it has an LT.
I’ll give you that. And some of the c7s, I believe as well. Has the sbc been in a new car since 99?
Posted on 9/14/20 at 9:02 pm to goofball
Hemi GOAT
Posted on 9/14/20 at 9:06 pm to Pfft
quote:
I would rather kiss Rosie O Donnell butthole
Pucker up Butter Cup...
I always laugh when I watch shows about re-built old Fords when they always put Chevy engines in them...
Posted on 9/14/20 at 10:25 pm to Hangover Haven
quote:
always laugh when I watch shows about re-built old Fords when they always put Chevy engines in them...
Those wide, heavy, and expensive Fords don’t suit the regular builder. Id love a coyote or whatever Dohc variant is out now. They are freaking sweet but the ls is king of the hill
This post was edited on 9/14/20 at 10:26 pm
Posted on 9/15/20 at 3:55 am to alajones
quote:
Cleveland is a big block. 351 Windsor is the small block.
While it is a rather pedantic argument that is complex and wrapped around a somewhat ambiguous definition the 351C is not a big block.
The 351C is part of the 335 family which was used to replace the FE family. So one might feel obliged to call it a BB.
The 351C has a deck height of 9.2" which is shorter than the 351W at 9.5" They share the same sized main bearings at ~2.75" compared the the BB main bearing size of 3". The 351C uses the small block bell housing. The 351C built as a stroker maxes out at 408 cu in where the higher deck height of the 351W allows a ~426 cu in stroker build or even 460 if you are creative and brave.
Now the 351M (Modified) is more aptly called a big block. It has a 10.3" deck height, 3" main bearings and uses the big block bell housing. It is also part of the 335 family.
If one still wants to argue a 351C is a big block you can just go to the source:
That should clear that up.
Today most 351C builds are done out of nostalgia or correctness for a car. The main advantages of the 351C over the Windsor family (221, 255, 260, 289, 302, and 351W) is the better flowing stock heads* and their stronger crank. Those advantages are washed away now by the aftermarket parts availability for the Windsor family, you can build an all-aluminum 351W @ 408, "427" or 460 cu in.
*the Windsor family always had poor flowing heads especially on the exhaust side the 351W stock with 1.54" exhaust valves MIGHT have 120CFM @ .500" on the flow bench. Back in my days of more time than sense I have sat around day after day with a die grinder and got a couple of sets of iron 351w heads to flow a little over 170cfm @ .500" using 1.6" exhaust valves. You can beat that off the shelf today with something like the aluminum Victor Jr. heads from Edelbrock.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 4:15 am to Obtuse1
351 Windsor used a 3 inch main, and the other canted valve BIG BLOCK, the 385 series used 3.0 also.
The Chevy guys called them big blocks because it took a 454 to run with the Cleveland, and Bob Glidden killed all comers back in the day when it was pounds per cubic inch in NHRA prostock. The Cleveland was carrying .3 pounds per cubic inch more than the Chevy, and still ruled the roost. Also, the vaunted 426 hemi never competed in the lbs/ci class of prostock, because it was too slow.
Not until the 500 ci limit was introduced, did the Cleveland relinquish its hold on NHRA prostock.
The Chevy guys called them big blocks because it took a 454 to run with the Cleveland, and Bob Glidden killed all comers back in the day when it was pounds per cubic inch in NHRA prostock. The Cleveland was carrying .3 pounds per cubic inch more than the Chevy, and still ruled the roost. Also, the vaunted 426 hemi never competed in the lbs/ci class of prostock, because it was too slow.
Not until the 500 ci limit was introduced, did the Cleveland relinquish its hold on NHRA prostock.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 4:17 am to dbeck
quote:
Hemi GOAT
While the 2nd gen Hemi is a heck of a motor it has been mythologized by decades of casuals who would think Plastigauge was Play Doh for ants.
As delivered I would say the 427 FE high riser SOHC is the greatest of all the muscle engines. It wasn't "perfect" as delivered but replace the timing chain with a gear drive and it was excellent. Even as delivered it was a Hemi killer, which is exactly why it was built.
One thing both Mopar and Ford got right was putting the distributor on the correct end of the engine. Anyone that has ever crawled inside an engine bay to set a dual point distributor on a Chevy will agree.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 4:27 am to 200MPHCOBRA
quote:
351 Windsor used a 3 inch main, and the other canted valve BIG BLOCK, the 385 series used 3.0 also.
You are correct. I "knew" two of the 351s shared main journal sizes but it is the 351M and 351W, not the 351W and 351C.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 5:15 am to goofball
quote:
with the inevitable switch to electric motors.
Which are exponentially more damaging to the environment because of heavy metal mining and refining, its just a huge lie
Posted on 9/15/20 at 5:43 am to Obtuse1
Used to race Clevelands back in the day, an interesting mix is a Windsor with Cleveland heads, the rod angularity is better with the tall deck Windsor, Ford Motorsports made blocks that mixed the components, I don't keep up with if they still do....hell even today you can see the Cleveland influence in all the nascar engines.
My buddies and I were discussing the other day all the variants Ford had with engines, you need an encyclopedia to keep up with all the differences.....
And that 427 Ford was a beast in all forms, low riser to SOHC.
My buddies and I were discussing the other day all the variants Ford had with engines, you need an encyclopedia to keep up with all the differences.....
And that 427 Ford was a beast in all forms, low riser to SOHC.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 5:59 am to Strannix
quote:
Which are exponentially more damaging to the environment because of heavy metal mining and refining, its just a huge lie
You are basing that on relatively old facts, the process of recovery has changed a lot in the last 10 and even 5 years, and along with the significant reduction and elimination of some of the worst offenders has significantly reduced the economic impact. The worst fallacy involved is comparing a mature industry with a relatively new one especially given the ramp up in production.
10 years ago much of the metal recovery was done by very small poorly capitalized companies or even "artisanal" mining in Africa. As it has become economically feasible for larger companies to come into the field the process has become much more ecologically friendly.
Take lithium recovery for example. When the demand for lithium started to seriously ramp up hard rock mining was the go to method of recovery due to its shorter lead time. This method of mining and the subsequent refining was indeed tough on the environment. As short term demand was met companies moved to the cheaper lithium salt mining which had too long of a lead time initially but has much less impact on the environment.
Ocean nodule recovery is one of the next steps to more green recovery and the metals needed for batteries are abundant in the nodules.
We certainly aren't in a perfect world with batteries but just as oil recovery and use has become cleaner over the years so will batteries just at a much faster rate than the oil industry did.
Motors will replace engines as the primary power source for most road going vehicles in the near future. The only question is how long batteries will be the primary storage/production medium for the electricity. The performance and efficiency of electric motors are just too great to ignore.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 8:03 am to goofball
SBC is a great motor but I much prefer a BBC
Posted on 9/15/20 at 8:14 am to goofball
SBC's are ideal aftermarket units They've been around so long that crate engines are a great value wrt time saving, direct bolt-in replacement and HP availability.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 8:28 am to Obtuse1
quote:
You are basing that on relatively old facts, the process of recovery has changed a lot in the last 10 and even 5 years, and along with the significant reduction and elimination of some of the worst offenders has significantly reduced the economic impact.
Cool, what happens when the battery hits end of life and has to be disposed of?
You are generating pollution on the front end and back end of the products lifespan to minimize slightly carbon burn during use.
From an environmental standpoint it’s still a losing proposition.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 8:30 am to 200MPHCOBRA
quote:
an interesting mix is a Windsor with Cleveland heads
Isn't that what the BOSS 302 was?
Posted on 9/15/20 at 8:31 am to goofball
quote:
the inevitable switch to electric motors.
Gotta save the Earth by mining all those metals out of the Earth for our battery powered vehicles, bro!
Strip mines are very environmentally conscious!
This post was edited on 9/15/20 at 8:33 am
Posted on 9/15/20 at 8:42 am to Obtuse1
quote:Only if the EPA/USGOV makes it that way.
Motors will replace engines as the primary power source for most road going vehicles in the near future.
Posted on 9/15/20 at 8:53 am to White Bear
100 million small block V8s were manufactured in the 20th century.
quote:
Wisconsin Man Drives Millionth Mile in '91 Chevy Pickup
LINK
This post was edited on 9/15/20 at 8:59 am
Posted on 9/15/20 at 10:40 am to USMEagles
Boss 302 was that, but much shorter deck height. And another kick arse motor.
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