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Message
re: NO to BR train won't work so says expert
Posted on 2/1/16 at 12:00 pm to Jack Daniel
Posted on 2/1/16 at 12:00 pm to Jack Daniel
1
Posted on 2/1/16 at 12:04 pm to doubleb
Removing cars from the roads is the ticket. It has been proven time and time again.
Mass transit should be the future.
I'm not sure you could write a more incorrect statement.
Mass transit should be the future.
quote:
Wrong, we (the Feds) are throwing billions at rail. Highways aren't getting the "love".
I'm not sure you could write a more incorrect statement.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 12:06 pm to doubleb
quote:
will not produce any of the benefits claimed for it
Add to this the fact that self-driving cars are likely to become a reality before this project is completed,
Hypebole. What is this gentlemen's agenda?
This post was edited on 2/1/16 at 12:07 pm
Posted on 2/1/16 at 12:07 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:
Hypebole. What is this gentlemen's agenda?
I pay taxes, and I don't like them wasted on projects that are boondoggles. What is yours?
Posted on 2/1/16 at 12:08 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
I know I will be rushing out to buy a new self driving car the day they come out.
So will every other person that has only been able to afford used cars their entire life.
So will every other person that has only been able to afford used cars their entire life.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 12:11 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
None of it will turn a profit.
The fascination and romanticism of trains is baffling to me.
Why would I spend upwards of 20 to 30 minutes getting to the NO train station heading east from uptown, when I could just begin heading west to Baton Rouge from the start? And, at whatever time I choose.
It's like these simple conveniences of automobile travel are just summarily dismissed without much thought.
Trains simply aren't that great, no matter if I want them to or not.
To your point: LINK
quote:
Man saves money on train fare by flying from Sheffield to Stansted via Berlin
Posted on 2/1/16 at 12:18 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
What's the mileages between some cities in the Northeast? Philly to DC? DC to NYC? NYC to Baltimore?
All under 200 miles...
NY to DC is 226 miles
Posted on 2/1/16 at 12:22 pm to ellishughtiger
quote:
There should be a speed rail around the country not just limited to 2 metro areas. They have these all over Europe, Why not in the states?
Because Europe has a population comparable to the US in a land area comparable to Texas.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 12:27 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
What's the mileages between some cities in the Northeast? Philly to DC? DC to NYC? NYC to Baltimore?
I posted these stats earlier:
To drive DC to NY 229 miles per
141 miles Philly to DC
192 miles from NYC to Baltimore
Others Boston to NYC 216 miles
Boston to DC 441 miles
Los Angeles to San Fran 381 miles
Chicago to New York 790 miles
Posted on 2/1/16 at 12:32 pm to Bmath
quote:
Trains like these only really work when they connect areas that are walking friendly, or if each city has an efficient public transportation system.
I have no idea of the feasibility of this specific project, but I could see the above problem being mitigated if the BR station were in a good accessible location and they had some kind of park-and-ride and the NO station were located somewhere in the CBD, which is reasonably walkable to most of the places people who use the train would likely want to go. I'm guessing the bulk of their expected traffic would be 1) people who were either commuting between the two cities or traveling between them for specific business-related reasons and 2) people who were traveling between the two cities (mostly from BR to NO or returning home to BR from NO) for evening or weekend entertainment. That crowd would usually be going somewhere walking distance within or near the CBD and should be pretty easily able to get to and from wherever the BR station would be.
It could be mitigated further if they also put in one or two extra stops in both cities (e.g. one at N.O. airport and/or one at LSU?)
This post was edited on 2/1/16 at 12:35 pm
Posted on 2/1/16 at 12:34 pm to Nuts4LSU
BR people don't walk from the far reaches of a WalMart parking lot. They aren't going to walk from the CBD to the French Quarter.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 12:55 pm to iliveinabox
quote:
Amtrak is fairly nice, wouldn't mind riding something like that to br/houston/laffy
You can ride Amtrak to Houston today.
have you?
Posted on 2/1/16 at 3:05 pm to doubleb
quote:
The problem with this study is that they are viewing this rail program in a vacuum. They are looking a what is without vision for what could be. Yes, the infrastructure to support this project does not exist. Yes, the population bases are too spread out, but, this is just one piece.
And all the visionaries are dreamers who believe that these projects are viable because they fulfill their dreams and reality is they aren't good, sound ideas.
If done right they could be very good ideas. The earliest the train could open would be around 2025. The mid range population projections for 2025 are for 256,000 Orleans parish, 453,000 for Jefferson Parish, 170,000 for Ascension Parish, and 424,000 for East Baton Rouge Parish. So that means over a million ppl will live in the parishes served by this train. Traffic along that corridor is already a clusterf**k. Giving everyone prius or more cars would not solve the congestion problem. So if done right it could be a valuable asset. La population projections
$3.5billion for streetcar expansion in NOLA
$100million for Nicholson streetcar
It is 4.4 miles from the river to Cortana mall, and BRT costs ~$30million/mile and light rail costs about ~$50million/mile. So it would cost anywhere from $130million-$250million for a mass transit option down Florida Blvd. If they put a mass transit line connecting BTR to the MOL utilizing Plank Rd, Acadian, Perkins, and some smaller street connecting them it would be about 18miles. That would be about $540 million for BRT and ~$900million for light rail. So $3.5billion for the NOLA streetcar upgrades, ~$1.5billion for BR mass transit, and $500million for the BR-NOLA train. So that plan would cost about $6billion.
It is 869 miles from the Jacksonville Amtrak station to the Houston Amtrak station, and it is costing All Aboard Florida ~$7million/mile to upgrade freight rail to rail capable of allowing 125mph passenger trains. So that ~$6.1billion.
So that plan would roughly cost about $12billion in today's money. I am not endorsing the plan just giving you a $$$ figure. I think La needs to get with the feds, private companies, and do multiple things because if the population projections for Louisiana pan out like the mid-rang estimates predict living in the southeast La area will be a traffic nightmare, and will require a BR loop, I-49 completed, improved streetcars and mass transit in NOLA, improved CATS and mass transit in BR, and some kind of rail system connecting them. The days of car only building for cities are over. Gas will not stay cheap forever, and they can not build lanes fast enough to keep up.
quote:
NO to BR train won't work so says expert
Some expert he is. He is using a study that is not even related to the project currently being considered. BRAF and Greater New Orleans are currently discussing a commuter rail that would cost $250million not the $450million like the "expert" quoted. LINK The $450million is from the plan that Jindal turned down $300million to help build. That plan was abandoned because it as too expensive and there were too many road crossing, bridges, and curves to make high speed rail worth it. Not endorsing the train, just calling out the "expert" for mixing up the 2 plans.
This post was edited on 2/1/16 at 3:07 pm
Posted on 2/1/16 at 3:12 pm to doubleb
Build a giant bridge that just goes completely over the city of baton rouge. Avoid all the b.s. traffic.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 3:27 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
BR people don't walk from the far reaches of a WalMart parking lot. They aren't going to walk from the CBD to the French Quarter.
Yeah...Apparently downtown BR has a parking problem too. Citizens have a walking problem.
Posted on 2/1/16 at 3:28 pm to WeeWee
Wee Wee did you see where EBR Parish population is predicted to DECLINE from now through 2030????
Your link: LINK
Orleans Parish is almost stagnant with a population growth of just over 3,000 people from 2015 thru 20130.
Jefferson Parish growth is 18,000 or roughly 4%.
I find that very telling, and have to question these grandiose plans to link the two metropolitan areas together. In 2030 Orleans+Jefferson+EBR are anticipated to have roughly 1.137,000 people which is less than 10,000 more than they have now.
Now you can add in other parishes to make it look better, but the truth is your two big urban centers(Orleans and EBR) aren't going to grow their total populations at all. In fact the statistics you link indicate the two parishes together are forecast to lose 9,000 people because EBR is forecasted to LOSE over 12,000.
While BRAF, Kip Holden, and others are telling you things are great, there's a boom, the census bureau is painting an entirely different picture.
Your link: LINK
Orleans Parish is almost stagnant with a population growth of just over 3,000 people from 2015 thru 20130.
Jefferson Parish growth is 18,000 or roughly 4%.
I find that very telling, and have to question these grandiose plans to link the two metropolitan areas together. In 2030 Orleans+Jefferson+EBR are anticipated to have roughly 1.137,000 people which is less than 10,000 more than they have now.
Now you can add in other parishes to make it look better, but the truth is your two big urban centers(Orleans and EBR) aren't going to grow their total populations at all. In fact the statistics you link indicate the two parishes together are forecast to lose 9,000 people because EBR is forecasted to LOSE over 12,000.
While BRAF, Kip Holden, and others are telling you things are great, there's a boom, the census bureau is painting an entirely different picture.
This post was edited on 2/1/16 at 3:50 pm
Posted on 2/1/16 at 3:47 pm to tigerpimpbot
quote:
These light rail projects are 100% graft, corruption, crony capitalism and wastefully expensive - both in construction AND operation. It is literally cheaper to give every light rail rider a Toyota Prius, than to build a light rail line. They are in the beginning stages of constructing a $2 billion speed train from Miami to Orlando. They have been given land grants and bond money. It won't last 3 years before it "goes under" and all those mofos who are getting paid just walk away from it. It's a damn shame
If you are talking about All Aboard Florida then you are ill informed. All aboard florida's parent company Florida East Coast railways owned the majority of the track. The only land they were given was for the stations. They are also paying upto $4.5million/yr to lease that station.
This post was edited on 2/1/16 at 3:54 pm
Posted on 2/1/16 at 3:49 pm to tigerinthebueche
quote:
no people love the convenience of going and coming on their own schedule and having the freedom of stopping anytime/anywhere they want on a whim, instead of being stuck on a train and its schedule.
So, people would rather leave when they want and sit in traffic for 2+ hours than leave on a pre-determined schedule, avoid traffic, get to work / home faster, possibly save money (assuming train pass cost less than gas), save wear and tear on their car, not have to drive and do other things while travelling, etc?
Well, I guess that makes sense. 
Seriously, that is some crazy cost benefit analysis for driving vs public trans.
This post was edited on 2/1/16 at 3:51 pm
Posted on 2/1/16 at 4:00 pm to doubleb
So ppl are moving from the city to suburbs. Apparently you are not grasping the concept of commuter rail. It takes ppl from suburbs in surrounding parishes and moves them to the city centers.
The commuter rail train that BRAF and Greater New Orleans presented in their last proposal would have stops in East Baton Rouge Parish, Ascension Parish, St. John the Baptist Parish, Jefferson Parish, and Orleans Parish. EBR is suppose to go from 429,000 in 2015 to 424,000 in 2025. Ascension is predicted to go from 127,000 in 2015 to 170,000 in 2025. St. John the Baptist is suppose to go from 53,000 in 2015 to 61,000 in 2025. Jefferson parish is suppose to go 444,000 to 453,000. Orleans is suppose to 252,000 in 2015 to 256,000 in 2025. So the city centers will shrink in EBR and grow a little in NOLA, but the suburbs will grow which means that more ppl will be commuting into the cities for work. Commute times in the BR area are already horrible and more ppl moving to Ascension parish will make that worse. Google is telling me that right now it take a minimum of 42 minutes to go from the river center (the BR station is suppose to be on government) to the Gonzalez city hall (where the Gonzalez station is suppose to be). The commuter train would take about 30 minutes.
42 minutes
Commuter rail time tables are on page 17
The commuter rail train that BRAF and Greater New Orleans presented in their last proposal would have stops in East Baton Rouge Parish, Ascension Parish, St. John the Baptist Parish, Jefferson Parish, and Orleans Parish. EBR is suppose to go from 429,000 in 2015 to 424,000 in 2025. Ascension is predicted to go from 127,000 in 2015 to 170,000 in 2025. St. John the Baptist is suppose to go from 53,000 in 2015 to 61,000 in 2025. Jefferson parish is suppose to go 444,000 to 453,000. Orleans is suppose to 252,000 in 2015 to 256,000 in 2025. So the city centers will shrink in EBR and grow a little in NOLA, but the suburbs will grow which means that more ppl will be commuting into the cities for work. Commute times in the BR area are already horrible and more ppl moving to Ascension parish will make that worse. Google is telling me that right now it take a minimum of 42 minutes to go from the river center (the BR station is suppose to be on government) to the Gonzalez city hall (where the Gonzalez station is suppose to be). The commuter train would take about 30 minutes.
42 minutes
Commuter rail time tables are on page 17
This post was edited on 2/1/16 at 4:48 pm
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