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re: National Championship and the potential impact on LSU enrollment
Posted on 1/14/20 at 10:01 am to dewster
Posted on 1/14/20 at 10:01 am to dewster
More like, i think way more football teams will look at transfer QBs to come in and start versus freshmen from highschool.
Imagine a pretty decent QB from a smaller D1 school that’s obviously very good but doesn’t have the talent around him or coaching and can transfer to a top 20 ranked football team.
That can be a huge bump in football wins
Imagine a pretty decent QB from a smaller D1 school that’s obviously very good but doesn’t have the talent around him or coaching and can transfer to a top 20 ranked football team.
That can be a huge bump in football wins
0
Posted on 1/14/20 at 10:09 am to dewster
If a prospective student uses a football championship as a factor in selecting what school to attend they probably should be considering trade school instead.
Posted on 1/14/20 at 10:26 am to EA6B
quote:
If a prospective student uses a football championship as a factor in selecting what school to attend they probably should be considering trade school instead.
But what if the championship is more like advertising and makes the potential applicant simply decide to research and see that LSU has what they want. It will not cause someone to choose LSU but it will cause folks to look their way that maybe had not considered it.
Since Nick Saban took over at Alabama, enrollment has gone up 40%. 59% of Alabama's enrollment is now from out-of-state. Average GPA and ACT has gone up as have donations. Dr. Witt used the publicity to build the academic side. A successful University President uses every tool available and a Natty is a big tool publicity wise. F King was not smart enough to use it correctly. Hopefully, the new leader will.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/education/edlife/survival-strategies-for-public-universities.html
This post was edited on 1/14/20 at 10:27 am
Posted on 1/14/20 at 10:34 am to Anaximander
quote:
Since Nick Saban took over at Alabama, enrollment has gone up 40%. 59% of Alabama's enrollment is now from out-of-state
How much of that is Alabama online?
They definitely advertise it a lot.
Posted on 1/14/20 at 10:39 am to Tarps99
quote:
How much of that is Alabama online?
They definitely advertise it a lot.
That is actual warm bodies. Alabama online is separate. But it is big money. Which is where those out-of-state bodies come in to pay the bills. With states cutting money, it is one of the things flagships have to do to keep up.
Those online programs are interesting. My daughter needed a specific Physics course last Summer and Mizzou's online school was the only one she could take around her internship. If she was an enrolled student at Mizzou the course would have cost double what we paid.
This post was edited on 1/14/20 at 10:39 am
Posted on 1/14/20 at 11:06 am to dewster
It's called the "Flutie effect" and there are papers written about the impact of championships and sports notoriety significantly driving up the number of applications to colleges and universities. It doesn't mean that all those students actually end up enrolling but it definitely impacts applications. LSU showed a huge increase in clicks on their admissions site and submitted applications after the Bama win.
This post was edited on 1/14/20 at 11:56 am
Posted on 1/14/20 at 11:13 am to lsursb
quote:
It's called the "Flutie effect" and there are papers written about the impact of championships and sports notoriety significantly driving up the number of applications to colleges and universities. It doesn't mean that all those students actually end up enrolling but it definitely impacts applications. LSU show a huge increase in clicks on their admissions site and submitted applications after the Bama win.
More on the Flutie effect
quote:
Even students with high SAT scores are significantly affected by athletic success—one of the biggest surprises from the research, Chung says.
Yes, now what the college does with it is the important part. F King sought to bring in more in-state folks with lower ACT scores and paying less. Hopefully, the new President realizes LSU is a flagship university and admission should have high standards.
This post was edited on 1/14/20 at 11:15 am
Posted on 1/14/20 at 11:13 am to dewster
It's had a major effect on Alabama. It's good for the brand. I think if we go on a run like they did it will have an impact.
Posted on 1/14/20 at 11:42 am to Anaximander
While not a National Championship, I was at TCU during the time of their Rose Bowl win. They reported record number of applications in the next 2 years. The year immediately following that win had over 20K applicants...for around 4K incoming Freshman spots. The state with the highest increase in applicants was California. So, it was a very effective advertisement for Californians.
Unfortunately, that also started a significant supply/demand imbalance that has contributed to an increase in the cost to attend TCU of nearly 50% since that time. But...campus is beautiful and full of big construction projects since that time as well.
Unfortunately, that also started a significant supply/demand imbalance that has contributed to an increase in the cost to attend TCU of nearly 50% since that time. But...campus is beautiful and full of big construction projects since that time as well.
Posted on 1/14/20 at 11:59 am to Anaximander
quote:
Yes, now what the college does with it is the important part. F King sought to bring in more in-state folks with lower ACT scores and paying less. Hopefully, the new President realizes LSU is a flagship university and admission should have high standards.
The former president/chancellor's goal was 35,000 students. He was determined to get there no matter what it took. I don't necessarily have a problem with taking some instate students with lower credentials as a 'service' to the state. What they have been doing over the past few years is admitting out of state students who were far below the state admission requirements for out of state admissions simply for the numbers. They pay out of state tuition but it doesn't help the stature of the university in terms of national rankings and the things that drive parents and higher caliber students.
Posted on 1/14/20 at 12:04 pm to lsursb
I know Miami’s success in the late 80’s and early 90’s galvanized economic and city growth according to the 30 for 30 episode about the U. That’s pretty impressive.
Posted on 1/14/20 at 12:08 pm to dewster
Could be. Football schools like Alabama have benefitted from increased standards in places like Georgia and Texas.
I think the problem for LSU is a) perception of Louisiana being really different/insular and thus not useful for people who will live elsewhere and b) unlike Alabama, I'm not aware of LSU's academic rise in recent years.
I think the problem for LSU is a) perception of Louisiana being really different/insular and thus not useful for people who will live elsewhere and b) unlike Alabama, I'm not aware of LSU's academic rise in recent years.
Posted on 1/14/20 at 12:12 pm to lsursb
quote:
The former president/chancellor's goal was 35,000 students. He was determined to get there no matter what it took. I don't necessarily have a problem with taking some instate students with lower credentials as a 'service' to the state. What they have been doing over the past few years is admitting out of state students who were far below the state admission requirements for out of state admissions simply for the numbers. They pay out of state tuition but it doesn't help the stature of the university in terms of national rankings and the things that drive parents and higher caliber students.
That is what I meant when I said you need a good President who know what to do. As to students with lower credentials in-state, there are nearly 30 state funded colleges and junior colleges in Louisiana where a student without the credentials can earn them if they want to attend the state flagship university. That is not a service to the state that LSU should be providing when the state shorts them on funding. North Carolina provides over forty percent of the funding for the University so it makes sense they should make more room for in-state students BUT those students still have to meet UNC standards. As for the out-of-state, you have to use the money that a Natty brings and throw some at high performing out-of-state students.
This post was edited on 1/14/20 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 1/14/20 at 12:14 pm to dewster
Enrolling to a university solely on the success of the football team is pretty stupid. No serious student would do that.
Posted on 1/14/20 at 12:28 pm to Vlatket
quote:
Enrolling to a university solely on the success of the football team is pretty stupid. No serious student would do that.
I wouldn’t go as far as saying stupid but maybe not the best decision especially with the flux of sports. One year you’re on top of the world and next season maybe/maybe not. Sports can be rather fickle.
Posted on 1/14/20 at 12:39 pm to Paul Allen
But let's be honest, it isn't just that.
Alabama grew a lot at a time when a) the school and grad programs were improving very quickly b) the school was pumping in money to facilities of all kinds c) football was at a peak and d) other major state schools ranked ahead of Alabama were getting even harder to get into (A&M, UGA, Texas, etc.).
So I don't think it's really kids choosing football over all else. But kids that would like to go to Texas are going "where else can I go that will be fun, has a lot of kids like me (who are reasonably smart and have families with money), has a great greek system, is pretty decent academically and is a big name school?"
Alabama grew a lot at a time when a) the school and grad programs were improving very quickly b) the school was pumping in money to facilities of all kinds c) football was at a peak and d) other major state schools ranked ahead of Alabama were getting even harder to get into (A&M, UGA, Texas, etc.).
So I don't think it's really kids choosing football over all else. But kids that would like to go to Texas are going "where else can I go that will be fun, has a lot of kids like me (who are reasonably smart and have families with money), has a great greek system, is pretty decent academically and is a big name school?"
Posted on 1/14/20 at 1:20 pm to dewster
Not on the size, but on the quality of ACCEPTED applicants will see a significant increase (by LA academic standards that is).
Out of state applications will increase exponentially. It 1000% happened in 2003/2004 + 2007/2008.
Out of state applications will increase exponentially. It 1000% happened in 2003/2004 + 2007/2008.
Posted on 1/14/20 at 1:42 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
But let's be honest, it isn't just that.
Alabama grew a lot at a time when a) the school and grad programs were improving very quickly b) the school was pumping in money to facilities of all kinds c) football was at a peak and d) other major state schools ranked ahead of Alabama were getting even harder to get into (A&M, UGA, Texas, etc.).
So I don't think it's really kids choosing football over all else. But kids that would like to go to Texas are going "where else can I go that will be fun, has a lot of kids like me (who are reasonably smart and have families with money), has a great greek system, is pretty decent academically and is a big name school?"
My son decided football was not important so he went to Southern Cal. Seriously though, football is probably the biggest shared social experience at most universities. I do not think anyone would choose to move to New Orleans because of the food or Mardi Gras but they are great advertising and marketing items to get people to notice the city and may provide a slight pull at least.
Looking at Alabama, my daughter got a Presidential scholarship and other triggered money where it would have cost more for her to attend LSU than go out-of-state to Alabama. That alone drives me nuts that LSU does not do more to keep the state's elite students. I would rather the money supporting F King's low score applicants to go towards free housing for elite Louisiana students.
This post was edited on 1/14/20 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 1/14/20 at 1:55 pm to Paul Allen
ESPN is a purveyor of entertainment and not a serious journalistic institution, so let's discount the impact of Miami football on Miami's rapid economic growth properly.
A small private school with fewer than 10,000 students, mostly from the northeast and overseas, did not have much of an economic impact, certainly not to the same level as the effects of foreign (drug-fueled) investment in the 80s, plus the popularity of 'Miami Vice'. Miami is essentially Tulane with nicer weather.
While fueled by Miami's unmitigated commitment to building a program at any cost, building such a rogue program at a small school for publicity is an anomaly for a private school and largely unrealistic for a private institution. Miami got so brazen and disconnected from the school I remember both internal stakeholders and Sports Illustrated questioning the rationale for such a small school having a program at all. The 'Catholics vs Convicts' documentary didn't go far enough in my opinion illustrating Miami and Jimmy Johnson (aka Pig-faced Satan) as the incarnation of all that was wrong and unholy in major college football.
The value of sports as a marketing tool makes more sense at a public University. Alabama is a better example, their sports program is part of a larger strategy to recruit better students and is far more comprehensive than anything LSU has at the moment or on the horizon.
A small private school with fewer than 10,000 students, mostly from the northeast and overseas, did not have much of an economic impact, certainly not to the same level as the effects of foreign (drug-fueled) investment in the 80s, plus the popularity of 'Miami Vice'. Miami is essentially Tulane with nicer weather.
While fueled by Miami's unmitigated commitment to building a program at any cost, building such a rogue program at a small school for publicity is an anomaly for a private school and largely unrealistic for a private institution. Miami got so brazen and disconnected from the school I remember both internal stakeholders and Sports Illustrated questioning the rationale for such a small school having a program at all. The 'Catholics vs Convicts' documentary didn't go far enough in my opinion illustrating Miami and Jimmy Johnson (aka Pig-faced Satan) as the incarnation of all that was wrong and unholy in major college football.
The value of sports as a marketing tool makes more sense at a public University. Alabama is a better example, their sports program is part of a larger strategy to recruit better students and is far more comprehensive than anything LSU has at the moment or on the horizon.
This post was edited on 1/14/20 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 1/14/20 at 2:12 pm to Anaximander
quote:
Looking at Alabama, my daughter got a Presidential scholarship and other triggered money where it would have cost more for her to attend LSU than go out-of-state to Alabama. That alone drives me nuts that LSU does not do more to keep the state's elite students. I would rather the money supporting F King's low score applicants to go towards free housing for elite Louisiana students.
I appreciate your sharing this, this is a perfect example of why I think Alabama will be more successful in all facets long term, because sports is part of a larger strategy to invest and improve the school comprehensively, versus the disconnect at LSU between sports and the educational mission.
As a parent of young kids in Louisiana and listening to my friends with older kids, I already see LSU falling behind in the next 10-15 years, because there is no comprehensive plan to get the best students to stay home versus other better options. The demographics alone will close most smaller schools in less than a generation, and Alabama seems to be committed to recruiting the best kids and becoming one of the few (second-tier) flagship state universities for the future.
This post was edited on 1/14/20 at 2:15 pm
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