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Napoleon was the Best General Ever, and the Math Proves it.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:33 am
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:33 am
LINK
There’s a glaring omission in this guy’s list...Ghengis Khan.
quote:
The Method
Inspired by baseball sabermetrics, I opted to use a system of Wins Above Replacement (WAR). WAR is often used as an estimate of a baseball player’s contributions to his team. It calculates the total wins added (or subtracted) by the player compared to a replacement-level player. For example, a baseball player with 5 WAR contributed 5 additional wins to his team, compared to the average contributions of a high-level minor league player. WAR is far from perfect, but provides a way to compare players based on one statistic.
I adopted WAR to estimate a given military tactician’s contributions beyond or below an average general. My model, which I explain below, provides an estimate for the performance of an average general in any given circumstances. I can then evaluate a general’s quality based on how much they exceeded or fell short of a replacement general in the same circumstances (assuming a replacement general would perform at an average level). In other words, I would find the generals’ WAR, in war.
quote:
The Results
Among all generals, Napoleon had the highest WAR (16.679) by a large margin. In fact, the next highest performer, Julius Caesar (7.445 WAR), had less than half the WAR accumulated by Napoleon across his battles. Napoleon benefited from the large number of battles in which he led forces. Among his 43 listed battles, he won 38 and lost only 5. Napoleon overcame difficult odds in 17 of his victories, and commanded at a disadvantage in all 5 of his losses. No other general came close to Napoleon in total battles. While Napoleon commanded forces in 43 battles, the next most prolific general was Robert E. Lee, with 27 battles (the average battle count was 1.5). Napoleon’s large battle count allowed him more opportunities to demonstrate his tactical prowess. Alexander the Great, despite winning all 9 of his battles, accumulated fewer WAR largely because of his shorter and less prolific career.
quote:
However, outside of Napoleon’s outlying success, the generals’ WARs largely adhere to a normal distribution. This suggests his success is attributable to command talent, rather than an anomaly in the model’s findings. In fact, Napoleon’s total WAR was nearly 23 standard deviations above the mean WAR accumulated by generals in the dataset.
quote:
There were also generals that had surprisingly low total WAR despite a reputation as master tacticians. Robert E. Lee, commander of the Confederate States Army, finished with a negative WAR (-1.89), suggesting an average general would have had more success than Lee leading the Confederacy’s armies. Lee was saddled with considerable disadvantages, including a large deficit in the size of his military and available resources. Still, his reputation as an adept tactician is likely undeserved, and his WAR supports the historians who have criticized his overall strategy and handling of key battles, such as ordering the disastrous ‘Pickett’s Charge’ on the last day of the Battle of Gettysburg. In the words of University of South Carolina professor Thomas Connely, “One ponders whether the South may not have fared better had it possessed no Robert E. Lee.”
quote:
German field marshal Erwin Rommel, nicknamed the ‘Desert Fox’ for his successes in North Africa during World War II, also performed poorly in this model, finishing with -1.953 WAR. This finding disputes the praise Rommel has received as a tactician from modern generals, including Norman Schwarzkopf and Ariel Sharon. However, like Lee, Rommel has been the subject of considerable historical debate. In particular, critics have attributed much of his reputation as a tactical genius to both German and Allied propaganda. British generals reportedly exaggerated Rommel’s tactical abilities in order to minimize disapproval regarding their defeats.
quote:
Modern generals performed relatively poorly in the model. American general George S. Patton, described by historian Terry Brighton as “among the greatest generals of [World War II],” accumulated only .9 WAR. The failure of modern generals to perform well in WAR may be attributable to changes in warfare which have prevented individual generals from participating in a large number of battles.
quote:
Among post-World War II generals, Israeli commanders stood out. Israeli military leader Moshe Dayan finished with 2.109 WAR (60th overall), an impressive amount for a modern general but relatively modest compared to pre-20th Century tacticians. Similarly, former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon accumulated 2.171 WAR (58th overall) for his battlefield successes in the Suez Crisis, Six-Day War, and Yom Kippur War.
quote:
Finally, I compared Hannibal’s assessment of the top generals of all time to my model. According to WAR, Hannibal underrated his own abilities— of all generals to date, Hannibal had the highest WAR at 5.519 (6th overall). Alexander the Great, who Hannibal named the top general, was just behind Hannibal’s mark with 4.391 WAR (10th overall). However, Alexander died after fighting just 9 battles, winning all of them. Hannibal had 17 battles to accumulate value, winning 13, losing 2, and drawing 2. Thus, I agree with Hannibal’s assessment that Alexander was the more able tactician, even though Hannibal provided more total value — Alexander demonstrated his ability to win battles, and likely would have continued to win had he not succumbed to illness.
quote:
My findings starkly diverge from Hannibal’s assessment regarding Pyrrhus of Epirus, a Greek general and early Roman rival. My model credits Pyrrhus with only 3 battles and -0.53 WAR. Although Hannibal attributes innovative military tactics to Pyrrhus, I am deeply skeptical of his overall tactical acumen, even before considering his inability to prevent catastrophic casualties to his armies during his victories.
There’s a glaring omission in this guy’s list...Ghengis Khan.
This post was edited on 12/31/19 at 10:35 am
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:34 am to TigerFanInSouthland
He’s alive and well right here on the OT. He knows quite a bit about home appliances.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:34 am to TigerFanInSouthland
Genghis
Or the Vietnamese guy that beat The Mongolians - don't recall the name.
Or the Vietnamese guy that beat The Mongolians - don't recall the name.
This post was edited on 12/31/19 at 10:36 am
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:34 am to TigerFanInSouthland
I’d take King David over anyone.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:36 am to TigerFanInSouthland
Wasn’t Alexander the Great undefeated in battle?
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:38 am to TigerFanInSouthland
That's cute
- Russia in winter
- Russia in winter
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:38 am to NOBOTIGER
Sorry you’re incapable of reading a longer post.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:39 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
Napoleon was the Best General Ever
It's been all downhill since for French military prowess.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:43 am to SabiDojo
WAR considers total career. It’s not just an average. So Alexander’s short military career hurts him
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:44 am to TigerFanInSouthland
This is a rather impressive feat and the end results make a lot of sense
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:50 am to TigerFanInSouthland
It’s an interesting concept, however the limitation of data points that it brings up is a pretty serious flaw.
Also, if it can’t account for the strategic limitations any general was dealing with when assigning scores you’re never going to see a talented general on the wrong side of a war score well, regardless of their actual skill. Battles are lost due to much more than just a general’s strategic brilliance or lack thereof.
Also, if it can’t account for the strategic limitations any general was dealing with when assigning scores you’re never going to see a talented general on the wrong side of a war score well, regardless of their actual skill. Battles are lost due to much more than just a general’s strategic brilliance or lack thereof.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 10:55 am to TigerFanInSouthland
Cool article, I like that he openly admits it is skewed towards generals with large battle counts and likely generals with logistical advantages
I’m on my phone so having trouble with working his chart. I wonder where really ancient generals like Cyrus the Great, Sargon the great, Hammurabi, Jacob of Israel, Nebuchadnezzar, Ramses II, Thutmosis III fall...
I imagine guys like that are hard to rank because the data is either very biased or lost to history...
ETA: I agree it’s interesting he doesn’t have Genghis Khan on there. Does he have other Steppe leaders like Atilla? What about tribal leaders like Boudicca?
I’m on my phone so having trouble with working his chart. I wonder where really ancient generals like Cyrus the Great, Sargon the great, Hammurabi, Jacob of Israel, Nebuchadnezzar, Ramses II, Thutmosis III fall...
I imagine guys like that are hard to rank because the data is either very biased or lost to history...
ETA: I agree it’s interesting he doesn’t have Genghis Khan on there. Does he have other Steppe leaders like Atilla? What about tribal leaders like Boudicca?
This post was edited on 12/31/19 at 10:58 am
Posted on 12/31/19 at 11:11 am to Tiger1242
I haven’t really been able to play with it much as I’m on my phone as well.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 11:13 am to TigerFanInSouthland
To much data missing and to much credit given to wins and losses. WAR rating works in a sport because it is an individual metric that identifies how much value a person brings to his team. It is easily measured when using all stats available.
How do you measure the stats for a General? Does a guy like Lee get credit for winning far more battles than he logically should have given the disadvantages of the confederate army? Lee’s Waterloo was Gettysburg. But like Napoleon, he won many battles against the odds. I think they are both in the top echelon of Generals. Where does Grant or Sherman or Stonewall Jackson rate? MacArthur? Just seems it is to weighted to wins and losses with to little emphasis on ability to beat the odds over a career.
How do you measure the stats for a General? Does a guy like Lee get credit for winning far more battles than he logically should have given the disadvantages of the confederate army? Lee’s Waterloo was Gettysburg. But like Napoleon, he won many battles against the odds. I think they are both in the top echelon of Generals. Where does Grant or Sherman or Stonewall Jackson rate? MacArthur? Just seems it is to weighted to wins and losses with to little emphasis on ability to beat the odds over a career.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 11:14 am to TigerFanInSouthland
Subutai
Khaled ibn al Waleed
Alexander Suvorov
Khaled ibn al Waleed
Alexander Suvorov
Posted on 12/31/19 at 11:18 am to TigerFanInSouthland
I didn't read all that, but having so many troops that you don't care if 30k get killed every battle doesn't make you a great general.
Posted on 12/31/19 at 11:22 am to TigerFanInSouthland
Epic History on Youtube has a really great series on the Napoleon battles. I will link the play list below. His newest was on the Russian Retreat was awesome.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 12/31/19 at 11:22 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
Among his 43 listed battles, he won 38 and lost only 5
George Washington lost nearly every battle he ever fought and won a continent. Napoleon ended up marooned on an island.
Going by impact, the answer is Alexander the Great. He marched his army halfway around the world, conquering everything in his path at long odds. He held his empire togerher by force of personality, and it fell apart immediately on his death.
This post was edited on 12/31/19 at 11:29 am
Posted on 12/31/19 at 11:36 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Going by impact, the answer is Alexander the Great. He marched his army halfway around the world, conquering everything in his path at long odds. He held his empire togerher by force of personality, and it fell apart immediately on his death.
I love Alexander the great, and he’s definitely in the discussion for best of all time, I mean he never lost a battle! But when you describe him like that you’re leaving out some key facts.
First of all, he never held his empire together, he died before he really had to deal with governing all of that territory. Would he have held it together if he had stayed alive? We will never know, but it’s wrong to say that he “held it together by force of personality” because he died before he ever faced that challenge
Secondly, while he did conquer everywhere that he went, his reputation preceded him in by the end cities were just surrendering to him before he even had to fight, the Persian empire was a paper tiger at that point because the satraps not working together, and the king Darius III was extremely weak, and then dead. He no doubt win some epic battles and showed great strategy and leadership, Persia however was ripe for the taking and he came along at the right time.
Thirdly, his father Philip II had already laid the groundwork for him. Philip had already renovated the Macedonian army, made important changes that made it the best in Greece, and possibly the world, and he had already conquered all of Greece before Alexander rose to power. Philip was also already planning an invasion of Persia when he died, so it was easy for Alexander to just continue his father’s plan without really having to change too much.
Now I don’t wanna take anything away from Alexander, clearly he was a beast, he never lost a battle and he conquered an enormous part of the world building cities and spreading his culture everywhere he went, which is a huge impact on our world today. But it is still fair to say that everything fell into place at the perfect time for him, if he had inherited a different kingdom or Macedonia at a different time, he likely never would have risen to the fame and success that he did
This post was edited on 12/31/19 at 11:37 am
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