re: Mormons Taking Over Central Florida

quote:

---

doctrinal inconsistencies

---

What religion doesn't have these? Please name one.

Streams:
I enjoyed reading your posts. Thanks for presenting your viewpoint. You've exhibited a large degree of courage by personally exposing yourself to the snake pit that is The OT!

For the record, I'm not anti-LDS. Like every other religion, Mormon dogma/history presents some head scratching moments to non-believers, but if I didn't make it clear in some of my previous posts, every Mormon I've ever met has seemed to be a genuinely good person.

A guy could do a whole lot worse than having a bunch of Mormons as neighbors.

quote:

---

what are the christian examples of these?

---

In the interest of healthy debate, these are pretty easy to find with a quick Google search.

quote:

---

Is it folly to be wise or not?

PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

---

LINK

quote:

---

"the negro are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concern(sic)" (Mormon Doctrine, 527-28; 1966)

---

Blacks being precluded from having the Priesthood & enjoying Temple Marriage are the "certain" spiritual gifts, you know and understand this.

quote:

---

"after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God" (Journal of Discourses, 7:290)

---

J of D is not official scripture or dogma. If you asked the present head of the LDS Church his comment on this passage he would speak for the church in saying that it is not the church's position. Think Galileo and heliocentric here sport.

I wrote:
"Name a single documented case of peer-reviewed human parthenogenesis."

quote:

---

what does that have to do with a miracle? are you saying there are no miracles? if so, prove it.

---

You and this statement are stupid.

I wrote:
"The concept of Virgin Birth is an exercise in faith, not medical science."

quote:

---

1. faith can be just as rational and reasonable as contemporary science.
2. science, qua methodological naturalism, is not an objective, thoroughly explanatory worldview.

---

1.Universalist much, bra?
2.Science will have to do as our "objective, thoroughly explanatory worldview" until a better process is discovered. What would you suggest, seances?

I wrote:
"You've already knowingly written several untruths"

quote:

---

not one thing i have written is factually or objectively untrue. if you disagree, i invite you to prove me wrong. it's also presumptuous of you to state that i have and assume that you are objectively correct.

---

Correct, "not one thing" you have written is factually or objectively untrue. Several are.

You are a sad, angry man, and I have pity on you.

I can't believe everyone has missed this in the thread. The best thing about Mormons as neighbors, aside from them not stealing and lying, is that they won't drink all your beer when you invite them over, and they can always be the designated driver when you go out.

And they aren't like Baptists, who WILL drink all your beer unless you invite a second along. Oh no. The Mormons have more guilt than a Catholic when it comes to drinking - even caffeine.

more blonde haired blue eyed beauties at the beach

quote:

---

LucasP

---

ah, so you want to discuss hermeneutics.

the type of passages you quote are called wisdom literature. notice what is missing - "you shall not" etc. instead, these types of passages are more about using your conscience as your common sense guide. wisdom literature does not always stress the most central aspects to faith; covenant, promise, redemption and forgiveness. instead they engender a practical attitude; listen, look, think, reflect. they are for developing a deeper character beyond the straightforward commands such as those in the decalogue.

so to answer your initial question, they were meant to be applied as the occasion permits. the specific passages you quote illustrate the above points; acquire wisdom but, do not make it the end goal. it is helpful but, ultimately fleeting.

i hope that helps. there are other, more detailed aspects we can discuss if you like.

any other examples of inconsistency?

quote:

---

Blacks being precluded from having the Priesthood & enjoying Temple Marriage are the "certain" spiritual gifts, you know and understand this

---

that's not what the passage says, nor what other passages say nor does it square with the curse of cain. you are reading into the text something that is not plainly there. i invite you to reconsider your interpretation. multiple lds leaders have made almost identical comments. the meaning is plain and quite derogatory.

quote:

---

J of D is not official scripture or dogma.

---

while this might be technically true, it is a reflection of what the leaders thought was official doctrine. herein lies a serious problem with lds theology; these extra-BOM scriptures record quotes from the leadership who are pretty much treated as infallible in their time. yet, the texts themselves are not official doctrine. additionally, they are treated as official doctrine in lay praxis. as i have said before, the worst part of it all is the changes that have occurred in doctrine as expressed in these scriptures.

quote:

---

he would speak for the church in saying that it is not the church's position

---

yet, at one time it practically was, thus, substantiating my point.

quote:

---

Think Galileo and heliocentric

---

this analogy is woefully misleading. you're implying that the church informally held to a geocentric theory but because of the work of galileo changed to a heliocentric stance. this is not true at all. neither the bible nor the church maintained a geocentric or heliocentric theory. there were christians who were on both sides of the issue and church leadership had no stake in either case. galileo and giordano bruno were punished for theological practices, not astronomical.

on the other hand, the lds scriptures i am referring to do reflect the official stance of leadership at that time. not only is the analogy flawed, it fails to acknowledge that these leadership positions have waffled over time.

quote:

---

You and this statement are stupid

---

so not only do you not have a substantive response, you appear to have a jr high maturity. got it. let me know when you think you can respond to the point.

quote:

---

Universalist much, bra?

---

what are you talking about? what i stated has nothing to do with universalism. you responded with the tired and mistaken notion that religion is faith - subjective, private and possibly irrational. it's unfortunate that good people have been led astray by this modern/postmodern misconception.

quote:

---

Science will have to do as our "objective, thoroughly explanatory worldview" until a better process is discovered.

---

no, science doesn't even pretend to do what you are claiming. i invite you to study the philosophy of science and the problem of demarcation. popper said that all observation is selective and theory-laden. another unfortunate aspect of modernity is the diminution of metaphysics which answers your question. metaphysics is quite reliable and capable of providing answers where methodological naturalism/philosophical naturalism falls short.

quote:

---

You are a sad, angry man

---

you have no idea if this is true and you are the one using middle school insults. it looks to me like the situation is actually reversed.

quote:

---

Better than Muslims

---

There are idiots in all religions. So no, not better than Muslims.

quote:

---

the Prophet got word from the Almighty that blacks could be members.

---

And later hold the Priesthood. Meaning, they could be members first...but not "card carrying" members. That came later still.