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Message
re: Moneywerx data assessment of the U.S. sabotaging Nord Stream 2 Pipeline
Posted on 10/4/22 at 3:33 pm to Scruffy
Posted on 10/4/22 at 3:33 pm to Scruffy
quote:
I am not dismissing the Russians entirely, but I find it far more plausible that it was performed by the west, since Russia fully loses that bargaining chip come wintertime.
But that bargaining chip had yet to moderate European actions at all. Those nations knew the threat too, as this isn't the first time that Russia has dangled its O&G capacity to compel something from Europe. In this case, it did not work as a deterrent or moderating influence. I'm skeptical that the pipeline is beyond repair, so Russia could be 'initiating a irreversible moderate risk' which ties the welfare of Europe as a whole to the welfare of Russia. It's a threat made manifest. Rather than merely speaking about 'Rocking the Boat,' I'm going to do something to show you that I am rocking the boat, an action that could possibly put both of us in jeopardy in case the other party does not change course. In this situation, it is sort of a prisoner's dilemma.
The fact that the action is counter-intuitive actually aids the Russians, as they retain plausible deniability and place the focus on their enemy excessively. Such an action, if done in such a way to suggest that the US acted alone, would potentially fracture the Western alliance. That fact alone also should undermine the notion that the US did this without the knowledge of Europe. There are only two possibilities, and one of them runs the risk of undermining support in the West for any action in Ukraine at all.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 3:34 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
I don't see how "let the wolf's tail freeze" equates to them blowing up their own pipeline and taking away their own leverage.
It's an exceedingly odd turn of phrase to use in the context it was used in, no?
quote:
It may have "failed" in the previous 8 months, but I just don't understand why he would take the option completely off the table.
There are lots of potential reasons, some of which I listed in my other post.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 3:49 pm to GumboPot
What is the guidance of the torpedo? Is it using GPS? Certainly not acoustic.
It's hitting a stationary small diameter albeit "infinite" length target - which is not the usual torpedo target.
It's hitting a stationary small diameter albeit "infinite" length target - which is not the usual torpedo target.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 3:59 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
It's an exceedingly odd turn of phrase to use in the context it was used in, no?
Sounds like you're looking into the tea leaves a little too hard.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 4:15 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Sounds like you're looking into the tea leaves a little too hard.
I don't think I am, as I'm making a case for a set of circumstances that I don't necessarily believe at this point, as in 'if Russia did it.' The evidence so far has been lacking, thus all we have is potential scenarios based on scant statements and consequences for things that haven't actually happened yet.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 4:23 pm to GumboPot
simple question that may have been answered but:
surely all combat missions are not tracked/logged on flight history sites like the one sited here are they?
I mean, a few F-18s go screaming off an aircraft carrier can you find every single flight and track and result?
I want to wrap my brain around that part of this story first ... otherwise is it some weird misdirectional campaign to try and make them think we did it and it was actually a cyberattack or whatever?
I dunno .... but agreed Russia blowing it up themselves makes no fricking sense at all
surely all combat missions are not tracked/logged on flight history sites like the one sited here are they?
I mean, a few F-18s go screaming off an aircraft carrier can you find every single flight and track and result?
I want to wrap my brain around that part of this story first ... otherwise is it some weird misdirectional campaign to try and make them think we did it and it was actually a cyberattack or whatever?
I dunno .... but agreed Russia blowing it up themselves makes no fricking sense at all
Posted on 10/4/22 at 5:10 pm to GumboPot
Anyone who doesn’t understand by now that we did this needs to stay away from sharp objects.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 5:28 pm to GumboPot
quote:
EU has secured a deal with Israel going forward so they will no longer rely on Russia for the gas and oil.
Israel has a few very small offshore fields.....so
Posted on 10/4/22 at 5:32 pm to GumboPot
The US allegedly had nothing to do with Stuxnet either. Not saying I completely buy into it, but it's not like we would be setting a new precedent here.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 5:37 pm to Strannix
Israel produces a fraction of the oil Russia produces.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 5:49 pm to Scruffy
quote:
They lose significant money and control now.
The pipelines were already non operational for “maintenance”.
Destruction of the pipeline furthers their excuse of shutting off gas to Europe right before winter.
This isn’t about money. It’s about power
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:25 pm to GumboPot
Why's everyone up in arms denying the possibility we did it?
So what if we did? It weakens one of our geopolitical rivals.
But why would they need an 'excuse?' They don't answer to Europe.
So what if we did? It weakens one of our geopolitical rivals.
quote:
furthers their excuse of shutting off gas to Europe right before winter.
But why would they need an 'excuse?' They don't answer to Europe.
This post was edited on 10/4/22 at 6:26 pm
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:46 pm to Scruffy
quote:
Israel produces a fraction of the oil Russia produces.
Comparatively zero
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:56 pm to Strannix
quote:Thousands of barrels vs millions.
Comparatively zero
Posted on 10/4/22 at 7:08 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Such an action, if done in such a way to suggest that the US acted alone, would potentially fracture the Western alliance.
Europe is our bitch.
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