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Started By
Message
re: Marksville City Marshals......Breaking two officers charged with murder
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:09 pm to Robin Masters
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:09 pm to Robin Masters
It's still just as asinine. Walking in a busy street is not life threatening.
2
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:09 pm to uway
quote:
But I know officer safety is the #1 concern.
If you were a cop wouldn't it be for you? look at all the cops killed...and most are for simple traffic violations. I really don't know how they can trust anyone.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:10 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
And, in my opinion, I don't think discharging your weapon into a vehicle not knowing who else is inside it is reasonable.
When your life is in danger and deadly force is used as a last resort, it most certainly IS reasonable. You should study the law.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:11 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
It's still just as asinine. Walking in a busy street is not life threatening.
Tell that to the scores of people hit and killed by cars every year.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:11 pm to ClientNumber9
If the law always got it right, there wouldn't be a need for lawyers.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:12 pm to ClientNumber9
quote:
As far as your analogy of "almost getting run over every time you step into traffic", no you certainly could not "open fire on someone who pulls out in front of you" because that person does not have the intent to kill you.
How do you know?
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:12 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Walking in a busy street is not life threatening.
Wut?
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:13 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
Cornered a vehicle, approached vehicle, he tries to run them over. Obviously the officers were able to sidestep the vehicle. What was the threat level then? Think about it.
Exactly.
If they guy is coming at you in a car, at night, and you don't know who else is present in the vehicle, you can't act like a maniac.
Shooting when he is coming at you is one thing, but once he gets by you (and supposedly they shot through the driver window), then you've got to stop IMO.
It is the equivalent of shooting a suspect once they've dropped their gun.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:17 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
How do you know?
\
That individual would have to display a quantifiable, articulable maneuver that they possessed the intent to kill you. Maybe your goal is to pursue this to some sort of gotcha moment but it's not going to happen. The law is pretty clear on deadly force usage. I'm not referring to this incident in particular because much of the fact surround the case haven't been released to the public but I can tell you that deadly force IS authorized when an assailant demonstrates that they have the means, intent and capability to kill you.
I think your preconceived notions on law enforcement have prevented you engaging in an honest debate on the matter. That's too bad.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:19 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
If you were a cop wouldn't it be for you? look at all the cops killed...and most are for simple traffic violations. I really don't know how they can trust anyone.
I understand it. I just don't think it makes sense for that to be an official position. I think it will lead to negative outcomes.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:20 pm to slackster
The facts are still unclear, I don't know if they sidestepped.
They say he was cornered. I'm assuming the cruisers were blocking the car in.
If the officers get out to approach the vehicle and the guy starts ramming their vehicles, I don't think it's a given that the officers' lives were in imminent danger.
They say he was cornered. I'm assuming the cruisers were blocking the car in.
If the officers get out to approach the vehicle and the guy starts ramming their vehicles, I don't think it's a given that the officers' lives were in imminent danger.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:21 pm to ClientNumber9
quote:
Let me ask you this: if you are in an alley and a car is barreling towards you with the intent of running you over and you cannot escape, are you allowed to shoot at the driver? What if you miss or the bullet goes through the driver and strikes the passenger? What if you can't see into the back seat to see if anyone is in the back seat? Do you just accept death? Because according to you, you're not justified for a shoot in this case.
Unlike the Cops if I did what you have described, I would be arrested and charged with manslaughter, based on the evidence the DA will either drop the charge or send it to a grand jury who would decide if there is justification for a indictment on the charge. If there is, I get to prove to a jury of my peers that my life was in danger, and it was self defense. A civilian that shoots someone doesn't get to just say I though my life was in danger and go home when they shoot someone.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:21 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
If the law always got it right, there wouldn't be a need for lawyers.
The law is vague in some matters and pretty clear in others. For example, when people rail DUI and insurance checkpoints and call them unconstitutional, they're just venting. SCOTUS has upheld them numerous times. It's a legal fact. If I'm in an alley and someone tries to gun me down with their car and I have no options left, I'm shooting to stop the threat so I can go home to my wife and four kids. If someone else other than the driver gets hit, while unfortunate, does not make me guilty of homicide.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:22 pm to EA6B
quote:
A civilian that shoots someone doesn't get to just say I though my life was in danger and go home when they shoot someone.
This happens daily across the United States.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:23 pm to Croacka
quote:
Accept your warrant and your kid is still alive.
True, but I don't know why people act like it is either the father's fault or the cops' fault. They aren't mutually exclusive.
It is obviously a tragedy, and I highly doubt the cops had any idea the kid was in the vehicle, but I don't see any reason to simply stop there. If they didn't know who was in the vehicle, there better be a rock-solid explanation as to why they felt the need to use deadly force and how the child because a casualty.
It's akin to a suspect shooting at the cops and running into their home - I would hope the cops would not continue to fire into the house without fully assessing the situation.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:25 pm to ClientNumber9
quote:
Say I'm on patrol and someone starts shooting at me from 10 feet. I've been hit at least once that I'm aware of. I draw and return fire. 3 of my 4 rounds hit the suspect. One round misses and strikes a child 100 feet away that I did not see. This event, while tragic and horrific, will not result in me being found guilty criminally or civilly.
I've got a very hard time believing a jury isn't going to find you guilty in a wrongful death suit.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:25 pm to ClientNumber9
quote:
That individual would have to display a quantifiable, articulable maneuver that they possessed the intent to kill you. Maybe your goal is to pursue this to some sort of gotcha moment but it's not going to happen. The law is pretty clear on deadly force usage. I'm not referring to this incident in particular because much of the fact surround the case haven't been released to the public but I can tell you that deadly force IS authorized when an assailant demonstrates that they have the means, intent and capability to kill you.
I think your preconceived notions on law enforcement have prevented you engaging in an honest debate on the matter. That's too bad.
My goal is simply to point out that the loose criteria you use to justify killing a 6 year old could be easily interpreted by a citizen walking down the street as a"reasonable" excuse to defend themselves.
Speaking of which, what quantifiable, articulable maneuver did the 6 year old demonstrate?
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:31 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
Speaking of which, what quantifiable, articulable maneuver did the 6 year old demonstrate?
None at all. It is a horrible tragedy any time an innocent person loses their life. But when you're in a deadly force situation, you're granted extremely wide leeway. The legal system doesn't expect you to die if there's the possibility that a third party may be harmed as you defend yourself.
You've still not answered what you would do if a car was barreling down an alley at you at night and you had no means to escape. You couldn't see if anyone was in the back seat. Do you defend yourself and shoot at the driver or let the car cut you in half?
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:32 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
The facts are still unclear, I don't know if they sidestepped.
I understand.
quote:
They say he was cornered. I'm assuming the cruisers were blocking the car in.
That is what I understand as well. The scene I have in my head is a guy either turning around at a dead in or putting a car in reverse in order to turn around, albeit in a reckless manor. However, the idea that the perpetrator was barreling down a street at the cops seems far-fetched considering the few facts that have been divulged.
Posted on 11/4/15 at 4:34 pm to slackster
quote:
Say I'm on patrol and someone starts shooting at me from 10 feet. I've been hit at least once that I'm aware of. I draw and return fire. 3 of my 4 rounds hit the suspect. One round misses and strikes a child 100 feet away that I did not see. This event, while tragic and horrific, will not result in me being found guilty criminally or civilly.
I've got a very hard time believing a jury isn't going to find you guilty in a wrongful death suit.
I've seen the original shooter be found guilty (twice) but not the police officer, unless he kept firing after the threat had been stopped.
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