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re: Louisiana supreme court claims priests do not have to report child abuse
Posted on 11/2/16 at 10:41 pm to Cruiserhog
Posted on 11/2/16 at 10:41 pm to Cruiserhog
Stolen comment from Reddit:
This will probably get me downvotes but I actually think the LA supreme court is in the right here. I don't want kids to be hurt and I'd love for the Pope to say "hey guys, ex cathedra: you're allowed to discuss confessed sin with the police if you have reason to believe that the sin will recur or justice needs to be served." But this particular avenue is not the right way to do it.
Being a *mandated reporter* is a relatively high standard that is usually set as part of your government-sponsored job: generally mandated reporters, if they see anything that seems remotely "off" about how a kid is being treated, must call a hotline or else risk losing their job. I've seen my girlfriend, who's a mandated reporter, call the hotline because a homeless woman was begging for change by a street and kept her kid nearby so she could watch him; even though she thought he was probably safe, she had a responsibility to call as part of her mandated reporting: because she had the thought of "well I hope he doesn't do something stupid like run out into traffic while his mom is accepting some money for some food to eat," and that thought is precisely the sort of thing that her colleagues have said "people have gotten fired for thinking that!" Or kids in air-conditioned cars that are left running-and-locked, she has reported that if someone sees her see that kid she might lose her job if she doesn't report it or try and find the parents and resolve the issue or anything.
I'm not going to defend, say, that the First Amendment's protection of religious freedom should allow the associated policy of "if it's said during confession then it's privileged and inadmissible in a court of law!" -- I'd prefer that confessions be classified as hearsay, unprivileged but not admissible directly as evidence. So that's crap. But trying to get *around* this policy by making priests automatically into mandated reporters sounds... *weird*. I understand why you'd take these social workers and teachers who you've trained to identify abuse, and compel them legally to report suspected danger even when they're not working... but the little bit of libertarian in me doesn't think that this should be extended to anyone who isn't in a particular relationship with the state where they're effectively employed and trained by the state. I wouldn't make everyone a mandated reporter and I feel really queasy about targeting religious professionals to be mandated reporters, as if it entangles religion and politics too much.
This will probably get me downvotes but I actually think the LA supreme court is in the right here. I don't want kids to be hurt and I'd love for the Pope to say "hey guys, ex cathedra: you're allowed to discuss confessed sin with the police if you have reason to believe that the sin will recur or justice needs to be served." But this particular avenue is not the right way to do it.
Being a *mandated reporter* is a relatively high standard that is usually set as part of your government-sponsored job: generally mandated reporters, if they see anything that seems remotely "off" about how a kid is being treated, must call a hotline or else risk losing their job. I've seen my girlfriend, who's a mandated reporter, call the hotline because a homeless woman was begging for change by a street and kept her kid nearby so she could watch him; even though she thought he was probably safe, she had a responsibility to call as part of her mandated reporting: because she had the thought of "well I hope he doesn't do something stupid like run out into traffic while his mom is accepting some money for some food to eat," and that thought is precisely the sort of thing that her colleagues have said "people have gotten fired for thinking that!" Or kids in air-conditioned cars that are left running-and-locked, she has reported that if someone sees her see that kid she might lose her job if she doesn't report it or try and find the parents and resolve the issue or anything.
I'm not going to defend, say, that the First Amendment's protection of religious freedom should allow the associated policy of "if it's said during confession then it's privileged and inadmissible in a court of law!" -- I'd prefer that confessions be classified as hearsay, unprivileged but not admissible directly as evidence. So that's crap. But trying to get *around* this policy by making priests automatically into mandated reporters sounds... *weird*. I understand why you'd take these social workers and teachers who you've trained to identify abuse, and compel them legally to report suspected danger even when they're not working... but the little bit of libertarian in me doesn't think that this should be extended to anyone who isn't in a particular relationship with the state where they're effectively employed and trained by the state. I wouldn't make everyone a mandated reporter and I feel really queasy about targeting religious professionals to be mandated reporters, as if it entangles religion and politics too much.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 10:46 pm to Tiger in NY
quote:
Confession booth or otherwise.
Try not to throw stones at something you don't understand
Posted on 11/2/16 at 10:49 pm to crazycubes
quote:
Try not to throw stones at something you don't understand
How do I not understand the confession booth?
99.9% of the sanctity of confession can be maintained, while still giving Priests the freedom to help kids in danger.
This post was edited on 11/2/16 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 11/2/16 at 10:55 pm to Tiger in NY
quote:
99.9% of the sanctity of confession can be maintained, while still giving Priests the freedom to help kids in danger.
What if I confess that I let my 2 year old stay up past her bed time? Does Father now need to report that? I realize bed time and sexual abuse are two totally different things, but where is the line drawn at?
Also, I'm sure the priest instructed the girl to go to the police. She did not.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 10:56 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
Looks like Bayhi conducted the funeral for him as well
He did. Bayhi and George Charlet were very close. One of the problems I have with this case is I think if Bayhi had found out that George Charlet's daughter was being abused by a random church member, things would have been handled differently.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 10:57 pm to crazycubes
Sexual abuse of a child. We draw the line at sexual abuse of a child. Next question.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 10:58 pm to crazycubes
quote:
What if I confess that I let my 2 year old stay up past her bed time? Does Father now need to report that? I realize bed time and sexual abuse are two totally different things, but where is the line drawn at?
No dumbass. Mandated reporting is very specific to certain crimes against certain types of people.
They don't have to report robberies, drug dealing, or even bedtime violations. Child or Elder abuse? Yeah.
quote:
Also, I'm sure the priest instructed the girl to go to the police.
You know this? That's not what the reports say...I understand wanting to defend your religion and the many great people that participate in it, but this type of blind agreement is why the church (all denominations) keeps losing followers.
This post was edited on 11/2/16 at 11:15 pm
Posted on 11/2/16 at 10:59 pm to crazycubes
quote:
I realize bed time and sexual abuse are two totally different things, but where is the line drawn at?
Holy shite
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:04 pm to jbgleason
quote:
This case was about the sanctity of the confessional. Crappy thread title and OP. I am sure you can't grasp the danger of allowing the government to put restrictions on our religious freedom.
How many cans of stupid did you take this morning?
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:04 pm to kingbob
quote:
Then, shouldn't she be suing her parents? If your daughter told you she was being sexually abused and your priest told you the same, wouldn't you call the cops?
Her parents were the ones that notified the cops once they found out what was going on. The priest met with the victim three times in a confession and never once gave her any helpful advice. While she didn't think she was 'confessing', the priest could have at least given the 14 year old guidance about how she could have reported it to authorities or discussed it with her parents. Bayhi wanted it to end, not be public. If he cared for that kid, he would have gotten her to talk to him about it outside the confessional so he could do something about it. There are so many things he could have done to do the right thing. He did nothing which was the worse thing he could do.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:06 pm to notbilly
Any religion that doesn't protect the innocence of a child is no religion at all. It's a cult.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:07 pm to notbilly
quote:
There are so many things he could have done to do the right thing. He did nothing which was the worse thing he could do.
And the church protects him in this decision, which is my issue. They could easily take away that protection and dictate that their Priests are there to help the helpless. Period.
He had way too much incentive to keep it quiet.
This post was edited on 11/2/16 at 11:10 pm
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:12 pm to Tiger in NY
quote:
Louisiana supreme court claims priests do not have to report child abuse
Just another reason I hate government and religion.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:29 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:You ever read the Old Testament?
Yea, because God just kills motherfrickers...
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:31 pm to shel311
quote:It should be 100% across the board but some people are fricking retarded.
I'll go ahead and say that a child being sexually abused is more important than anyone's religious freedoms, but that's just me.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:35 pm to crazycubes
quote:Wow.
What if I confess that I let my 2 year old stay up past her bed time? Does Father now need to report that? I realize bed time and sexual abuse are two totally different things, but where is the line drawn at?
The English language does not have a word to describe this level of stupidity.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:40 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
Sexual abuse of a child. We draw the line at sexual abuse of a child. Next question.
The problem is that once you say a right is no longer absolute, someone will always have a reason to draw the line in further. Sexual abuse is where you may draw the line but others will want to make it tighter, and eventually rip asunder the right of the Catholic Chirch to do meaningful sealed confessions at all.
The same principle applies to the argument for banning assault weapons after Newtown, or curtailing free speech rights on college campuses after the Oklahoma n-word incident. If you do that, you may think that's where it ends, but what you've probably done is set a precedent to roll back basic liberties further.
This is an awful situation and I agree that we need to protect kids and victims, but we need to do it in a way that doesn't undermine the First Amendment.
This post was edited on 11/3/16 at 12:18 am
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:48 pm to maine82
quote:
what you've probably done is set a precedent to roll back basic liberties further
The ability to hear a child tell about being raped and do nothing about it is not a liberty that humanity grants. Also, there are specific rules about what requires mandated reporting and you don't hear people clamoring to widen the standard. That slippery slope argument falls on deaf ears when youre talking about turning a blind eye toward child rape.
Posted on 11/2/16 at 11:57 pm to Tiger in NY
quote:
Louisiana supreme court says priests do not have to report child abuse
FIFY.
It's not "claims" like they have no power over it with no force of law when its actually the opposite.
Posted on 11/3/16 at 12:55 am to Boston911
quote:
Not saying I agree, but the difference is that it's a protected religious practice.
well, so was polygamy, but the Feds outlawed that (they just only prosecute when shite gets bad).
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