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re: Looking for some pitching sequence tips for youth baseball...
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:02 pm to Lester Earl
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:02 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
You say a change up is the 2nd easiest pitch to teach, when in fact it is the 4th or 5th hardest one to master.
No where did I disagree with this statement. Now you are on the right track. The difference between an 11-12 and MLB though? The changeup doesn't need to be *mastered* to be successful at the age of 11-12.
If an 11-12 doesn't *master* a curveball, they can frick their arm up by throwing it improperly. Their arm isn't fully developed yet and can put undue stress on a kid's arm. A changeup cannot do that.
quote:
In the end your point is baseless because of that.
0
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:06 pm to Moustache
I just wonder where all these people who mastered a changeup at 11 years old disappear to when they turn 18. Most scouting reports on pitchers in the MLB draft read: "Great fastball, solid build, decent breaking ball. Changeup needs a lot of work."
Carlos Rodon from MLB.com
"Rodon can overpower hitters with two pitches. His fastball sits at 93-94 mph, can reach 97 and features good life. His best offering is a wipeout slider that usually arrives in the mid-80s. He's still working on a changeup that shows signs of becoming an average pitch."
#2 pitching prospect Jeff Hoffman from MLB.com:
"offman hasn't fully grown into his lanky 6-foot-4 frame, yet he already works in the mid-90s and hits 98 mph with his fastball. His big-breaking curveball can be equally devastating, and while his changeup lacks consistency, it can be a plus pitch at times. He throws a decent amount of strikes but will need to refine his command to become a frontline starter in the big leagues."
I guess they never bothered to learn the changeup at 12. That's the reason.
Carlos Rodon from MLB.com
"Rodon can overpower hitters with two pitches. His fastball sits at 93-94 mph, can reach 97 and features good life. His best offering is a wipeout slider that usually arrives in the mid-80s. He's still working on a changeup that shows signs of becoming an average pitch."
#2 pitching prospect Jeff Hoffman from MLB.com:
"offman hasn't fully grown into his lanky 6-foot-4 frame, yet he already works in the mid-90s and hits 98 mph with his fastball. His big-breaking curveball can be equally devastating, and while his changeup lacks consistency, it can be a plus pitch at times. He throws a decent amount of strikes but will need to refine his command to become a frontline starter in the big leagues."
I guess they never bothered to learn the changeup at 12. That's the reason.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:06 pm to Topwater Trout
I agree to a point no doubt.
I still don't think I would apply that here though.
In the end If you are throwing a change up in 11-12, I think you are doing a service to the hitter. Most Kids that age aren't developed yet in their hitting mechanics to hit a good fastball. They are much more capable of hitting a pitch that has slowed down in velocity. Even if they are fooled by it
I still don't think I would apply that here though.
In the end If you are throwing a change up in 11-12, I think you are doing a service to the hitter. Most Kids that age aren't developed yet in their hitting mechanics to hit a good fastball. They are much more capable of hitting a pitch that has slowed down in velocity. Even if they are fooled by it
This post was edited on 2/19/14 at 3:08 pm
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:10 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
I think you are doing a service to the hitter. Most Kids that age aren't developed yet in their hitting mechanics to hit a good fastball. They are much more capable of hitting a pitch that has slowed down in velocity. Even if they are fooled by it
i agree and that is why i would throw fastballs 80% of the time. Only the good hitters would see change ups.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:14 pm to PurpleAndGold86
I had no clue this topic would be so polarizing.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:18 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
i agree and that is why i would throw fastballs 80% of the time. Only the good hitters would see change ups.
This is the right answer to the OP.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:18 pm to Chicken
I provided the only valuable information in this thread FWIW. 
Also, cluckster, don't have your pitchers focus on pitching low in the strike zone. Research indicates for this age group and most players that aren't elite to keep the ball up in the zone.
YWIA
Also, cluckster, don't have your pitchers focus on pitching low in the strike zone. Research indicates for this age group and most players that aren't elite to keep the ball up in the zone.
YWIA
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:22 pm to Topwater Trout
quote:
i agree and that is why i would throw fastballs 80% of the time. Only the good hitters would see change ups.
I'm no longer the only one that provided valuable information in this thread.
6-10 hitters do not see a change up very often from my guys.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:25 pm to Geecubed
quote:
Almost as good as a breaking ball, and doesn't hurt the kid's arm.
how many 11 yr olds do you know that are going to throw it correctly? all the time
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:27 pm to Chicken
Something else you can implement with your pitchers is shaking off pitches. Especially if your guy can prove to throw more than 1 pitch effectively.
If it gets to a point where you're throwing only off speed in 2 strike counts, the hitters will eventually catch on. So have your pitcher shake off the catcher once or twice.
The hitter is thinking "ut oh, did he just shake off the curve ball that he's been throwing with 2 strikes?"
You can even still go with the curve. But any pitcher with a high velocity FB should be able to blow it by the hitter if he has that 2nd pitch.
Also you could mix up pitch calling sequences. Instead of only throwing a curve for a strike out, start a hitter off with one. Or throw 2 in a row at one point.
If it gets to a point where you're throwing only off speed in 2 strike counts, the hitters will eventually catch on. So have your pitcher shake off the catcher once or twice.
The hitter is thinking "ut oh, did he just shake off the curve ball that he's been throwing with 2 strikes?"
You can even still go with the curve. But any pitcher with a high velocity FB should be able to blow it by the hitter if he has that 2nd pitch.
Also you could mix up pitch calling sequences. Instead of only throwing a curve for a strike out, start a hitter off with one. Or throw 2 in a row at one point.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:30 pm to Chicken
quote:You must have never entered into a travel ball thread.
I had no clue this topic would be so polarizing.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 3:50 pm to dante
Most 11-12 year olds don't have big enough hands to throw a change up effectively, nor the ability to keep arm speed the same. At least I didn't, and I went on to pitch and start on the weekend for a D1 school in college (not trying to brag, though I'm sure I'll get called out for that as opposed to the other advice I'm throwing out here).
I started throwing a curveball when I was around 10 and never had any arm issues because of it. I'd leave that decision up to each individual kid's parents. If they are okay with their kid throwing a curveball, then let the kid do it.
I didn't even learn to throw a changeup until my freshman year of high school, and even then I was basically a fastball/curveball guy. I "mastered" the changeup in college because all of a sudden I was a soft lefty instead of the guy who could blow his 86 mph fastball past most guys.
Focus on throwing fastballs and trying to locate them (mostly outside corner at this age for reasons already stated), and then build on that foundation from there. Honestly, if you have a kid who can throw 60+ mph at 11-12, he will get almost everyone out if he just throws strikes, much less paints the corners.
I started throwing a curveball when I was around 10 and never had any arm issues because of it. I'd leave that decision up to each individual kid's parents. If they are okay with their kid throwing a curveball, then let the kid do it.
I didn't even learn to throw a changeup until my freshman year of high school, and even then I was basically a fastball/curveball guy. I "mastered" the changeup in college because all of a sudden I was a soft lefty instead of the guy who could blow his 86 mph fastball past most guys.
Focus on throwing fastballs and trying to locate them (mostly outside corner at this age for reasons already stated), and then build on that foundation from there. Honestly, if you have a kid who can throw 60+ mph at 11-12, he will get almost everyone out if he just throws strikes, much less paints the corners.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 4:01 pm to Moustache
quote:
I just wonder where all these kids that mastered a change-up
I don't think anyone in this thread said a kid mastered anything
They are 11-12
In my experiences, the kids threw it effectively enough to get kids out
If they can't then let them throw what works
Posted on 2/19/14 at 4:10 pm to lsusteve1
Chicken all they need to do is be able to throw strikes. that's it. 11-12 year olds are basically going to see a pitch and swing and if they hit it then they got lucky. kids are not going up there swinging on time. also there is not going to be enough difference in pitch speed to make that much of a difference
Posted on 2/19/14 at 4:11 pm to LSU Rules07
I completely disagree with you about the change up at that age or at least the slower pitch. I watch it take down the best hitters on the other team time after time.
They don't have the patience for a good off speed pitch.
My best pitcher is deadly with it when it's called at the right time.
They don't have the patience for a good off speed pitch.
My best pitcher is deadly with it when it's called at the right time.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 4:33 pm to Chicken
They key is to get ahead. Fastballs early and as other posters have said use the outside edge. Younger kids aren't really refined in allowing the ball to travel, so dominating the outside will give you strikeouts and soft ground balls.
I'd mix in off speed but mainly would call high fastballs with favorable counts. By high I mean shoulder and above, I'd rip my pitchers shite if he gave his hitter a nipple high fastball on an 0-2 count. I also always charted hitters because they almost always do the same thing even through high school unless they have a decent coach.
Use the fastball, even if it isn't that fast!
I'd mix in off speed but mainly would call high fastballs with favorable counts. By high I mean shoulder and above, I'd rip my pitchers shite if he gave his hitter a nipple high fastball on an 0-2 count. I also always charted hitters because they almost always do the same thing even through high school unless they have a decent coach.
Use the fastball, even if it isn't that fast!
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:12 pm to Chicken
Chicken, your boy and mine are the same age, and about the same level. Mine is our #1and not because he's mine. Location with the fastball and a change up is the answer.
They can learn a change up, and their 2 and 4seam act differently, which is like three pitches between those.
Be responsible for these kids futures and do right by them, in case some have a baseball future.
No curves, unless it is a "football" or overhand curve, and even then, maybe one per inning.
They can learn a change up, and their 2 and 4seam act differently, which is like three pitches between those.
Be responsible for these kids futures and do right by them, in case some have a baseball future.
No curves, unless it is a "football" or overhand curve, and even then, maybe one per inning.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 10:14 pm to Chicken
Good Lord. 11-12 year olds. 1st pitch--fastball strike. 2nd pitch--fastball strike . 3rd pitch--fastball strike. It's not MLB!
Posted on 2/19/14 at 10:30 pm to Lakefront-Tiger
quote:
No curves,
Why not? At that age my pitches were a 4 seam, 2 seam and a curve. Change ups are a lot harder to throw than what yall are suggesting.
What needs to be drilled at the 11-12 age is location. They need to have an accurate fastball above anything off speed.
Eta: to the OP, I don't have any advice for sequence of pitches other than actively pay attention to what works the first time through the lineup. Kids that age aren't making big adjustments to their hitting approach between at bats.
This post was edited on 2/19/14 at 10:34 pm
Posted on 2/19/14 at 10:33 pm to JimMorrison
Good post Jim other than the Gamecocks suck. Lol.
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