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Long but good video & article on how FHA has propped up parts of the RE market since CV

Posted on 3/10/25 at 8:06 am
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
175476 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 8:06 am
Expanded forbearance came about due to Covid but HUD has used it (abused it if we are being honest) to artificially prop up parts of the market. VA has also done this and has practically halted all foreclosures, trapping people in forbearance. And now, Liz Warren wants to use her CFPB agency to expand this to more than just HUD-backed loans, forcing banks to trap people in forbearance even on conventional loans.

This is a large reason as to why prices keep pushing higher, and despite all of the indicators pointing towards a correction, one hasn't happened yet.






This guy is a little extreme in calling it the Subprime bubble 2.0 IMO but in his defense, some if it does feel that way.

Some similarities is we have loosened lending restrictions. Not to the extremes of the subprime bust but not far off

Examples:

FHA allows credit scores as low as 580 to qualify with as little as 3.5% down.

FHA also allows credit scores as low as 500 to qualify with a 10% down payment.

FHA has loans that allow 30% of income from a roommate who pays rent to be counted towards DTI, and they also have a program for Non-Occupant Co-Borrowers to qualify and their income be considered for the loan.

Fannie Mae's HomeReady program allows household income from non-borrowing members living in the home to be considered for DTI calculations.

Also, 17% of FHA loans from 2022 are already in default. In 2022 FHA increased loan limits. I bet more people than ever are capping out at the 43% DTI max and this allowed people to buy more than they could afford, much like the subprime fiasco.

I am curious to see if HUD under Trump will try to navigate this or keep kicking the can down the road. Most of these homes will be coming out of forbearance this year, meaning they have to sell or start making payments again. That or face foreclosure.



quote:

Why do housing prices keep climbing despite higher interest rates? The federal government has allowed borrowers to take out bigger mortgages than they can afford. To prevent foreclosures, it’s bailing them out when they miss payments. Behold another subprime housing bubble.

The problems began when the Obama administration eased underwriting standards by enabling more home buyers whose debt payments exceed 43% of income to qualify for government-backed loans. Such borrowers are risky because they might not be able to make payments if their income drops or expenses rise.

As home prices climbed, the Federal Housing Administration insured more loans to financially stretched borrowers with as little 3.5% down. No skin off lenders’ backs if borrowers later defaulted, since the mortgages were backed by the government.

In 2007, 35% of new FHA borrowers had debt-to-income ratios above 43%. By 2020, 54% did. As housing prices and inflation surged, borrowers became more stretched. The FHA kept insuring mortgages to borrowers who were increasingly leveraged. About 64% of FHA borrowers last year exceeded the 43% threshold.

The FHA loan portfolio is far riskier than it was before the 2008 housing crisis. The American Enterprise Institute’s Ed Pinto and Tobias Peter estimate that 79% of FHA first-time borrowers have a month or less in financial reserves—not enough to make mortgage payments if their household expenses rise, as most have owing to inflation.

No surprise, many are missing payments, especially recent borrowers. About 7.05% of FHA mortgages issued last year went seriously delinquent—90 or more days past when a payment is due—within 12 months. That’s more than at the 2008 peak of the subprime bubble (7.02%).

Under the guise of Covid relief, the Biden administration masked the growing troubles in the housing market by paying off borrowers and mortgage servicers to prevent foreclosures. Of the 52,531 FHA loans last year that went seriously delinquent within their first year, only nine resulted in foreclosure.

The FHA instituted a program that pays mortgage servicers to make borrowers’ missed payments for them. Missed payments are added to the loan’s principal, but without interest. The FHA also pays servicers to cut monthly payments for delinquent borrowers by 25% for three years, with the payment reductions also added to the principal without interest.

Consider a borrower who misses five $4,000 monthly mortgage payments. The servicer will add the $20,000 in missed payments to the mortgage and reduce monthly payments by $1,000 for three years—adding another $36,000 to their mortgage. So the borrower is $56,000 deeper in debt, though with no additional interest. If he misses payments again, the servicer rinses and repeats, getting paid $1,750 every time it lathers up. The FHA also lets servicers charge borrowers legal fees—typically several thousand dollars—that are added to the mortgage principal.


The FHA made 556,841 “incentive payments” to servicers over the past year to prevent foreclosures—nearly as many as the new mortgages it insured. Government-backed mortgage relief has become a cash cow for servicers, some of which originated the risky loans they are paid not to foreclose. Moral hazard, anyone?

One result is that many FHA borrowers owe more than their original mortgage and more than their homes are worth. They are essentially trapped in their homes even if they want to sell and move.

Another result is that home prices keep increasing because borrowers who don’t pay their mortgages—and never should have qualified for loans—can’t get foreclosed on or be forced to sell their homes. Getting foreclosed on these days is like flunking out of college—it takes effort. You have to reject repeated offers for mortgage relief.



WSJ Article



TLDR or TLDW version is that Biden has directed HUD to kick the can down the road so a correction didn't happen on his watch and in exchange we have an artificially inflated RE market
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
16546 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 8:11 am to
We have to improve the market factors for purchasers (wages, employment, interest rates) or a major market correction is inevitable.
Posted by BabyTac
Austin, TX
Member since Jun 2008
14254 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 8:11 am to
So I paid cash for my house and vehicles. I don’t beg to borrow money. I guess this doesn’t affect me since I don’t beg for things I can’t afford?
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
175476 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 8:14 am to
quote:

We have to improve the market factors for purchasers (wages, employment, interest rates)


43% DTI is insane and that was allowed to happen because there has been no possible way for wages to keep up with home values. Part of home values continuing to rise was supply shortages. Taking away foreclosures, which are a natural part of the market cycle, only amplifies the shortage of supply issue.

Posted by Bayou_Tiger_225
Third Earth
Member since Mar 2016
11632 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 8:25 am to
Another way to look at it is you took a large amount of cash to purchase an asset that now is at risk of a material decrease in value.

Meanwhile some else like me put down 10%, signed a fixed 3% interest rate, and took the remaining cash and put in the market to get a +8% return.
Posted by Jcorye1
Tom Brady = GoAT
Member since Dec 2007
74913 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 8:35 am to
quote:

Meanwhile some else like me put down 10%, signed a fixed 3% interest rate, and took the remaining cash and put in the market to get a +8% return.


While I applaud you, when we bought the interest rates were 7.5% or so. It's more worth it to us to pay down the loan and get back to no debt than it is to put the excess into the market. We are making out 401ks, IRAs, and making other investments on the side as well so we are still going to be great for retirement (~250/300k savings between us and I'm the oldest at 36).
Posted by AirbusDawg
Milton, Ga
Member since Jan 2018
2751 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 8:38 am to
quote:

So I paid cash for my house and vehicles. I don’t beg to borrow money. I guess this doesn’t affect me since I don’t beg for things I can’t afford?


So what you meant to say is you live out of your 78 pinto?
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
16546 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 8:45 am to
Necessary or not removing large numbers of illegals is going to suck demand out of the market on the low end of the rental market as well.

30 million illegals have to live somewhere and if 10M leave that’s going to reduce intrinsic demand coast to coast while increasing supply.

We have a major problem.
Posted by GT3324
Northshore
Member since Jul 2015
500 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 10:10 am to
Dammit.
Where did I put my decoder ring.
Posted by GeauxTigers123
Member since Feb 2007
2267 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 10:57 am to
I’ve been watching videos predicting the crash for a solid 4 years now.

Things in DFW keep chugging along. I will say the heart of Austin has had a 10%+ plus pull back.
Posted by Dawgfanman
Member since Jun 2015
24709 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 11:06 am to
quote:

I’ve been watching videos predicting the crash for a solid 4 years now.


Car prices and housing will crash soon..just wait 6 months..been hearing this since 2020.
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
175476 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 11:24 am to
quote:


Car prices and housing will crash soon..just wait 6 months..been hearing this since 2020.



Did you even read or watch any part of the OP?

It is pointing out how ever since Covid/2020 the market has been artificially propped up with taxpayer money bailing people out.

You agreed with my OP without even realizing it.
Posted by Dawgfanman
Member since Jun 2015
24709 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 11:25 am to
quote:

Did you even read or watch any part of the OP? It is pointing out how ever since Covid/2020 the market has been artificially propped up with taxpayer money bailing people out. You agreed with my OP without even realizing it.


So soon?
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
175476 posts
Posted on 3/10/25 at 11:33 am to
Depends if we keep propping the market up or not


17% of FHA loans written since 2022 are in default but not foreclosure and 14% of all FHA loans are in some stage of default but not foreclosure. That's over a million loans. That's not accounting for any other loan types.

The subprime crash was around 10 million homes so people who keep trying to compare that to a correction now are way off and full of hyperbole but the market would look a lot different right now if those million FHA loans were allowed to transition into foreclosure instead of being propped up by forbearance programs on the backs of taxpayers. At the very least we would see price pullbacks in major markets AKA a correction.

I know this is above your pay grade but it is hilarious you agreed with my OP without even realizing it.
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