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re: Liquid Nitrogen powered vehicles.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 8:59 am to TigerHornII
Posted on 1/29/25 at 8:59 am to TigerHornII
quote:
Wrong. I know of two guys who FAFO'd. They deaded.
Was it a situation where they went into a sealed tank or railcar that had been purged? That's very different than a garage.
Going to need someone to do the math on how much a 5 gallon N2 tank can increase the ambient N2 concentration in a garage sized space. Are we talking from 78% to 79-80% or 78% to closer to 90%?
1
Posted on 1/29/25 at 9:02 am to madmaxvol
Air separation at any bulk requires an enormous amount of energy. As previously stated in this thread, N2 is cheap because it is basically a byproduct of producing pure oxygen.
It would become very expensive very fast, and honestly, unless powered by nuclear probably no better for the environment CO2 wise.
It would become very expensive very fast, and honestly, unless powered by nuclear probably no better for the environment CO2 wise.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 9:18 am to GumboPot
Depends if liquid or in a pressurized vessel. Takes a lot of energy to get to either.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 9:45 am to GumboPot
Liquid nitrogen is made essentially made from electricity. Electricity comes from coal, natural gas, nuclear, and a few other sources.
$2/gallon means nothing in this application. What matters is the cost to operate.
A steam engine used on the vehicle would probably produce better economics for less carbon emitted because the source carbon could be used more efficiently at the vehicle to produce steam rather than at a power plant to produce electricity which is then used to compress nitrogen from a gas to a liquid while losing considerable energy as heat in the process.
Crap like this just transfers the problem they say they are trying to solve.
$2/gallon means nothing in this application. What matters is the cost to operate.
A steam engine used on the vehicle would probably produce better economics for less carbon emitted because the source carbon could be used more efficiently at the vehicle to produce steam rather than at a power plant to produce electricity which is then used to compress nitrogen from a gas to a liquid while losing considerable energy as heat in the process.
Crap like this just transfers the problem they say they are trying to solve.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 9:49 am to KamaCausey_LSU
quote:
Going to need someone to do the math on how much a 5 gallon N2 tank can increase the ambient N2 concentration in a garage sized space. Are we talking from 78% to 79-80% or 78% to closer to 90%?
Very possible I did this wrong. I'm not mathematician.
A 20x25x12 garage holds about 6000 scf of air. 4680 of that is already N2. at an expansion rate of 1:700 you'd need very little liquid N2 for it to become uninhabitable.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 9:51 am to CharlesUFarley
Zero emissions at point of use generally means higher emissions as a whole.
Burning the root source of the energy at the point of the last conversion from energy to work is always going to almost always be the most efficient way to operate.
But hey, it ain't got no CO2 coming out the tailpipe so it's better for the world, right?
Burning the root source of the energy at the point of the last conversion from energy to work is always going to almost always be the most efficient way to operate.
But hey, it ain't got no CO2 coming out the tailpipe so it's better for the world, right?
Posted on 1/29/25 at 9:51 am to GumboPot
How much energy is used to compress it to a liquid? There is no free ride in the energy world.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 9:56 am to GumboPot
Video skips over a key point: What generates the heat to change the liquid to gas on demand? Going to need a huge heat source to do that. The cryo pump only pressurizes the liquid, but does not cause a phase change.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 9:58 am to GumboPot
quote:
It’s carbon neutral for the climate change people.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 10:02 am to GumboPot
quote:you must not know of PV=nRT
Also I have to imagine because the tanks will not be perfectly insulated (nothing is) fuel will be lost through the required PRV just sitting idle.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 10:02 am to CarRamrod
PERVERT!!!
Posted on 1/29/25 at 10:04 am to Sgt_Lincoln_Osiris
quote:
What generates the heat to change the liquid to gas on demand?
The sun. Liquid nitrogen is converting to gas at -320 degrees Fahrenheit.
I nitrogen dewar comes with a pressure builder valve to build head pressure. This pressure will build until it reaches the max pressure of the safety pressure relief valve- commonly 230 PSI on an industrial dewar or 22 PSI for dewars where you're using a liquid application.
That's going to be the main problem. Vehicles spend more time parked than they do on the road. That liquid nitrogen in your tank is constantly converting to gas because we don't live on Saturn. That gas has to have somewhere to go, so it is going to vent off. You might have parked in the morning with 3/4 of a tank and leave work with 1/2 a tank. When tomorrow morning rolls around now you've got 1/4 tank.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 10:07 am to Riseupfromtherubble
This thread has made me realize I know nothing about nitrogen. Anyone want to talk about financial models in Excel or corporate finance?
Posted on 1/29/25 at 10:09 am to UptownJoeBrown
quote:oohh look to plant baws duking out their intelegence.
I think I'm currently being exposed to about 790,000 parts per million of nitrogen. Should I be worried?
Nitrogen not kept highly compressed and/or extremely cold (e.g. loose in a garage) will very rapidly go from liquid to gas. And i doubt many garages are sealed enough that any plausible amout of escaped nitrogen will bring the garage interior to sufficient nitrogen concentration to asphyxiate you.
Well, I said “nitrogen rich” which means 2 things. 1. “Rich” means relative to normal amounts. 2. You sound even more like an idiot trying to be smarter then me not knowing this.
Yeah, people commit suicide by running a car engine inside a closed garage. Perhaps you think they died from something else other than a gas? Surely the garage isn’t sealed enough according to your assumption.
Go ahead and let loose a nitrogen cylinder in your closed garage and then walk in it if it’s no big deal. Bet you wouldn’t.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 10:20 am to lostinbr
quote:
Even if you assume 35% thermal efficiency for an ICE, that’s still an effective energy density like 16x higher than the theoretical maximum using liquid nitrogen.
How does this square with 800 miles per tank?
Posted on 1/29/25 at 10:26 am to holdem Tiger
Make the tank large enough and you can get 8,000 miles per tank. Per tank is a meaningless metric.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 10:44 am to CarRamrod
quote:
oohh look to plant baws duking out their intelegence
This is what I come here for
Posted on 1/29/25 at 10:46 am to holdem Tiger
quote:
How does this square with 800 miles per tank?
I mean theoretically you can make the tank as large as you want.
I would like to see a real source for that 800 mile claim though. In fact, I’m having trouble finding a source for any of the claims in OP’s YouTube link other than other YouTube videos or social media posts. The video claims that there is a Toyota prototype but I sure can’t seem to find a press release or anything.
I’m not saying it’s fake; I might just be missing something. But it seems like it would be easier to find if it’s real.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 11:07 am to dallastiger55
quote:
Nitrogen tires are the biggest scams at a dealership
I use the 78% nitrogen in my tires. Seems to work well.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 12:08 pm to alphaandomega
On the plus side, nitrogen thieves will be easy to spot, dressed like Eskimos carrying insulated jugs down the LA streets. Suck starting that siphon could be a little rough though......
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