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Message
re: LHSAA Drama..
Posted on 7/26/16 at 2:54 pm to Tigeralum2008
Posted on 7/26/16 at 2:54 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:
false
Blue Cross and Blue shield didn't just discontinue their partnership?
The Superdome is not reconsidering hosting the football championship with Allstate keeping a close eye and likely pulling funding if it changes venues?
0
Posted on 7/26/16 at 2:55 pm to PhilemonThomas
quote:
Was the option ever discussed to acctually enforce the rules that caused the problem rather than making a split? Maybe take a real look at John Curtis and Evangel?
I can tell you it is virtually impossible to prove unless you have a student and their family keep some form of documentation proving the school bent/broke rules to get them.
Some kids will have their tuition paid under the table by silent boosters, some schools (mine did) had a second book of accounts for star athletes detailing reduced/forgiven tuition that is not listed in the main account. Some kids will transfer from another HS and have false documents proving they made a "bona-fide" move to another school's attendance zone thereby being immediately eligible
All cases are incredibly difficult to prove but I can assure these things occur every year.
Public schools are not without fault of their own too! Some FB coaches will get kids whose parents live outside the zone but they have a rental property or "cousin" with property in the zone. All you need to prove residency is have an electric bill in your name.
This post was edited on 7/26/16 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:05 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:
That's right, the best way to address the concerns expressed by 60% of your membership is to make fun of them by trivializing the issue.
If there would have been less railroading and more of an opportunity for the alternative solutions to be heard and studied, I don't think we would be anywhere near a split, nor your quoted 60%. However, the way it was handled resulted in the principals voting blindly, for the only option that changed the current system.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:13 pm to secondandshort
I agreed with his statement.
Also, I generally refrain from changing other people's quotes when I'm more concerned about what they have to say.
Also, I generally refrain from changing other people's quotes when I'm more concerned about what they have to say.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:23 pm to Tigeralum2008
I just went through the LHSAA state championship results for most of the sports.
Private/select schools won state titles in all divisions for the following sports:
Cross Country, Boys and Girls (could be wrong as their results are difficult to read on the LHSAA website)
Volleyball
Soccer (Boys and Girls)
Tennis (Boys and Girls)
Other sport results
Golf (Boys) 2 of 4 won by private
Golf (girls) 1 of 2 won by private
Track (Boys) 3 of 5 titles went to private
Track (girls) 4 of 5 titles went to private
Basketball (Boys and Girls): Private schools only won 2 of 7 titles for each gender
Softball: 1 of 7 available titles won by a private school
Baseball: 4 of 7 titles won by private
Football 2012 (the last year before split): 5 of 5 titles won by private schools
In total, private schools won 48 of the 73 titles I studied (66%). Basketball and Softball really helped balance the total titles. Some sports are simply dominated by private schools year after year.
Principals and ADs hear from their coaches how it is difficult to compete against a stacked deck and therefore start advocating for change.
Private/select schools won state titles in all divisions for the following sports:
Cross Country, Boys and Girls (could be wrong as their results are difficult to read on the LHSAA website)
Volleyball
Soccer (Boys and Girls)
Tennis (Boys and Girls)
Other sport results
Golf (Boys) 2 of 4 won by private
Golf (girls) 1 of 2 won by private
Track (Boys) 3 of 5 titles went to private
Track (girls) 4 of 5 titles went to private
Basketball (Boys and Girls): Private schools only won 2 of 7 titles for each gender
Softball: 1 of 7 available titles won by a private school
Baseball: 4 of 7 titles won by private
Football 2012 (the last year before split): 5 of 5 titles won by private schools
In total, private schools won 48 of the 73 titles I studied (66%). Basketball and Softball really helped balance the total titles. Some sports are simply dominated by private schools year after year.
Principals and ADs hear from their coaches how it is difficult to compete against a stacked deck and therefore start advocating for change.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:31 pm to SaturdayTraditions
quote:
If there would have been less railroading and more of an opportunity for the alternative solutions to be heard and studied
Public schools have been screaming about this issue for over a decade.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:32 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:
Cross Country, Boys and Girls (could be wrong as their results are difficult to read on the LHSAA website)
Volleyball
Soccer (Boys and Girls)
Tennis (Boys and Girls)
Other sport results
Golf (Boys) 2 of 4 won by private
Golf (girls) 1 of 2 won by private
Track (Boys) 3 of 5 titles went to private
Track (girls) 4 of 5 titles went to private
Basketball (Boys and Girls): Private schools only won 2 of 7 titles for each gender
Softball: 1 of 7 available titles won by a private school
Baseball: 4 of 7 titles won by private
What year did this occur? 2015-2016 school year? Since you included the 2012 football season, were they all 2012?
You cannot use two different sets of data, no matter how weak the link between them is...ie (The last year before the split). That skews your data.
So unless the non-football results were also from 2012, I am going to say that "66%" is an invalid number.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:34 pm to SaturdayTraditions
these were all from 2015-16 except for football
I used the 2012 for football since the split already occurred in that sport and I wanted to include the results from the last "combined" championships
My point is that of the 73 championships I looked at, 66% went to private schools. You are more than welcome to check my results.
I used the 2012 for football since the split already occurred in that sport and I wanted to include the results from the last "combined" championships
My point is that of the 73 championships I looked at, 66% went to private schools. You are more than welcome to check my results.
This post was edited on 7/26/16 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:34 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:
Public schools have been screaming about this issue for over a decade.
Yet, in an organization in which they wield the majority of the power, they waited until the very end to put it to a vote? Seems logical.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:37 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:
these were all from 2015-16 I used the 2012 for football since the split already occurred in that sport
Invalid data then.
Find me the percent of 2012 championships won by privates. I would like to see "all things equal" data. Otherwise, the 5 for 5 that football experienced in 2012 could be painted as what it is... a statistical anomaly used to skew the numbers in your favor.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:40 pm to SaturdayTraditions
Even if you omit the football stats and just look at the 2015-16 results from sports that still hold combined championships, you get 43 of 68 (63%)
I'll be back for the full 2012 results which I'm sure you'll be happy to poke holes in as well
I'll be back for the full 2012 results which I'm sure you'll be happy to poke holes in as well
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:42 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:
My point is that of the 73 championships I looked at, 66% went to private schools. You are more than welcome to check my results
I'm saying that I could easily put together data using multiple years and multiple sports, to make the numbers paint an entirely different picture.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:46 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:
Even if you omit the football stats and just look at the 2015-16 results from sports that still hold combined championships, you get 43 of 68 (63%) I'll be back for the full 2012 results which I'm sure you'll be happy to poke holes in as well
I'm not trying to poke holes... I'm trying to ensure that no data is being represented unfairly, through inappropriate collection techniques. If the numbers show it, then fine, I will accept them. However, I will tell you, it is going to take numbers FAR higher than 63-67% in favor to convince me that a split was needed.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:51 pm to Tigeralum2008
Also, when Modern stated
How do you reply with :
Then turn right around and start making the argument about the amount of championships that the privates win over the publics? Then finish you post with
Seems like you are making Modern's point for him.
quote:
Everybody gets a trophy!
How do you reply with :
quote:
That's right, the best way to address the concerns expressed by 60% of your membership is to make fun of them by trivializing the issue.
Then turn right around and start making the argument about the amount of championships that the privates win over the publics? Then finish you post with
quote:
Principals and ADs hear from their coaches how it is difficult to compete against a stacked deck and therefore start advocating for change.
Seems like you are making Modern's point for him.
This post was edited on 7/26/16 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:53 pm to Tigeralum2008
Here's why that data doesn't support a split, aside from the fact that it is just 1 year:
What percentage of private schools won championships? Sure, there are some serious private school powerhouses out there. Maybe even some that do it by the techniques you listed, though I think that is far less pervasive than some would have you believe.
The majority of private schools are no more equipped to compete with John Curtis or the like than most public schools. A school like Many, who was a big split advocate, can overmatch many more private schools than it is overmatched by.
While I do think there is an issue, simply separating public schools from private is not the best or even a particularly logical solution.
Now, a performance-based criteria to move teams up makes sense. Maybe even a multiplier for out of zone kids. But moving ALL private schools because no one ( even the privates) can beat some of them isn't the right call and that's why there is such a cry out against it
What percentage of private schools won championships? Sure, there are some serious private school powerhouses out there. Maybe even some that do it by the techniques you listed, though I think that is far less pervasive than some would have you believe.
The majority of private schools are no more equipped to compete with John Curtis or the like than most public schools. A school like Many, who was a big split advocate, can overmatch many more private schools than it is overmatched by.
While I do think there is an issue, simply separating public schools from private is not the best or even a particularly logical solution.
Now, a performance-based criteria to move teams up makes sense. Maybe even a multiplier for out of zone kids. But moving ALL private schools because no one ( even the privates) can beat some of them isn't the right call and that's why there is such a cry out against it
Posted on 7/26/16 at 3:58 pm to yallallcrazy
quote:
Here's why that data doesn't support a split, aside from the fact that it is just 1 year: What percentage of private schools won championships? Sure, there are some serious private school powerhouses out there. Maybe even some that do it by the techniques you listed, though I think that is far less pervasive than some would have you believe. The majority of private schools are no more equipped to compete with John Curtis or the like than most public schools. A school like Many, who was a big split advocate, can overmatch many more private schools than it is overmatched by. While I do think there is an issue, simply separating public schools from private is not the best or even a particularly logical solution. Now, a performance-based criteria to move teams up makes sense. Maybe even a multiplier for out of zone kids. But moving ALL private schools because no one ( even the privates) can beat some of them isn't the right call and that's why there is such a cry out against it
Posted on 7/26/16 at 4:07 pm to SaturdayTraditions
You guys are missing what I am saying.
I am trying to use numbers to back up my claims that the unrestricted attendance zone rules for private schools presents a competitive advantage over public schools
Think about it this way. If LSU and Bama are each competing for the same title but there is a law that states LSU can only have kids from LA play for them whereas Bama can have any kid in the nation join their team... would you say Bama holds an advantage over LSU year to year?
Also in 2012 for the sports I can count (still trying to figure out XC and wrestling)... 46 of 60 titles (76%) were won by private schools
I am trying to use numbers to back up my claims that the unrestricted attendance zone rules for private schools presents a competitive advantage over public schools
Think about it this way. If LSU and Bama are each competing for the same title but there is a law that states LSU can only have kids from LA play for them whereas Bama can have any kid in the nation join their team... would you say Bama holds an advantage over LSU year to year?
Also in 2012 for the sports I can count (still trying to figure out XC and wrestling)... 46 of 60 titles (76%) were won by private schools
Posted on 7/26/16 at 4:18 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:
You guys are missing what I am saying. I am trying to use numbers to back up my claims that the unrestricted attendance zone rules for private schools presents a competitive advantage over public schools Think about it this way. If LSU and Bama are each competing for the same title but there is a law that states LSU can only have kids from LA play for them whereas Bama can have any kid in the nation join their team... would you say Bama holds an advantage over LSU year to year? Also in 2012 for the sports I can count (still trying to figure out XC and wrestling)... 46 of 60 titles (76%) were won by private schools
You are missing what we are saying...
If championships are trivial to the concerns of the principals, then what is the other reason?
Posted on 7/26/16 at 4:32 pm to Tigeralum2008
Let's also remember the initial proposal for the split in football included 4 divisions for Public and 2 divisions for private. Adding only 1 additional championship for a total of 6 trophies being hoisted each year rather than the 9 currently offered.
I do remember the private schools demanded 5 divisions but settled for 4. This made for watered down playoffs in their divisions rather than some great matchups in a 2 division private school bracket. They were hoping this would cause the LHSAA membership to see the split as a failure but it seems it has worked against them.
I do remember the private schools demanded 5 divisions but settled for 4. This made for watered down playoffs in their divisions rather than some great matchups in a 2 division private school bracket. They were hoping this would cause the LHSAA membership to see the split as a failure but it seems it has worked against them.
Posted on 7/26/16 at 4:33 pm to SaturdayTraditions
quote:
If championships are trivial to the concerns of the principals, then what is the other reason?
I didn't say championships were trivial. I said people were trivializing the concerns others had with the current system.
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