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Message
Legal career question
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:22 pm
I know we've got a bunch of lawyers that post here, but I was curious as to how many folks have law degrees, but don't practice. If you're in that boat, what kind of work are you doing?
My daughter's considering law school. Generally speaking, she really has no idea of what she wants to do. She's close to being a junior (hours wise) even though this is only her 4th "non summer/full" semester.
My biggest concern is that if she goes this route, she'll likely wind up with a general studies degree. It's a "no major/3 minors" type undergrad degree. So, she'll be qualified to do nothing from an undergrad perspective, but obviously, a law degree changes things.
I know a bunch of attorneys, but they all practice. Other than teaching bus law or law school, what do attorneys do if they don't practice law?
A quick google search (or review of old threads here) gives you a pretty bleak outlook for attorneys finding jobs.
Should I advise her against this unless she has a burning desire to practice law? BTW, I think she'd likely excel academically in law school, at least based on her undergrad performance, if that makes a difference in how you'd answer.
My daughter's considering law school. Generally speaking, she really has no idea of what she wants to do. She's close to being a junior (hours wise) even though this is only her 4th "non summer/full" semester.
My biggest concern is that if she goes this route, she'll likely wind up with a general studies degree. It's a "no major/3 minors" type undergrad degree. So, she'll be qualified to do nothing from an undergrad perspective, but obviously, a law degree changes things.
I know a bunch of attorneys, but they all practice. Other than teaching bus law or law school, what do attorneys do if they don't practice law?
A quick google search (or review of old threads here) gives you a pretty bleak outlook for attorneys finding jobs.
Should I advise her against this unless she has a burning desire to practice law? BTW, I think she'd likely excel academically in law school, at least based on her undergrad performance, if that makes a difference in how you'd answer.
10
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:23 pm to TigerTreyjpg
I rarely use my JD, but I still sign stuff with 'esquire' written behind it.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:25 pm to HeadyBrosevelt
Not a lawyer but I've been in the contracts field for over 30 yrs and that's where you'll find a lot of lawyers.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:26 pm to TigerTreyjpg
I taught with a guy who earned his law degree, but I don't think passed the bar or ever practiced.
He taught government/civics classes and ran a respected forensics program in high school. The students seemed to really like him. He parlayed his career in education into becoming mayor of the city.
Also heard a guy on a call-in radio show the other day who had been unable to pass the bar exam. He worked in government facilitating contracts.
He taught government/civics classes and ran a respected forensics program in high school. The students seemed to really like him. He parlayed his career in education into becoming mayor of the city.
Also heard a guy on a call-in radio show the other day who had been unable to pass the bar exam. He worked in government facilitating contracts.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:30 pm to shutterspeed
Seems like when I was younger, everyone pretty much passed the bar. Now, seems like I heard the pass rate's about 50% (in La).
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:31 pm to TigerTreyjpg
If I were you I'd attempt to convince her to get an undergraduate degree in something useful, and still pursue law school.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:34 pm to TigerTreyjpg
quote:
My biggest concern is that if she goes this route, she'll likely wind up with a general studies degree. It's a "no major/3 minors" type undergrad degree. So, she'll be qualified to do nothing from an undergrad perspective, but obviously, a law degree changes things.
She needs to choose a major.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:46 pm to TigerTreyjpg
I would advise that she pick a useful major very soon: Engineering, Chemistry, ISDS, Construction Management, Accounting, ect
Law isn't exactly the cash cow degree it once was. Law School is expensive, it only leads to a 50% bar passage rate, the job placement rate is abysmal, and then that job will be working 60-70 hours per week making less money than you'd think with zero job security.
If law really is her passion, tell her to go for it, but she needs to cover her but (career wise) with a useful undergrad degree that offers better career placement than law school and looks better on a college application than "general studies", political science, or history.
Law isn't exactly the cash cow degree it once was. Law School is expensive, it only leads to a 50% bar passage rate, the job placement rate is abysmal, and then that job will be working 60-70 hours per week making less money than you'd think with zero job security.
If law really is her passion, tell her to go for it, but she needs to cover her but (career wise) with a useful undergrad degree that offers better career placement than law school and looks better on a college application than "general studies", political science, or history.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:55 pm to TigerTreyjpg
Tell her to get a degree in something solid. I'm a lawyer but I do regret that my undergraduate degree wasn't in something more specialized.
Of course, I'd also recommend that she not go to law school in general. It's not worth a shite.
Of course, I'd also recommend that she not go to law school in general. It's not worth a shite.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:55 pm to TigerTreyjpg
1) She needs to pick a major and stick with it. As far as I know, LSU Law will not accept anyone with a Gen Studies degree.
2) There are very few majors that provide job security. Engineering, finance, chemistry, biology all steer graduates to a certain career path but that isn't the case with any of the liberal arts degrees. I have a Poli Sci degree - it's worthless unless you work/intern in that field during school.
3) I am an attorney who doesn't practice much. I work as an oil & gas landman. It's not an easy job to get (anymore) and is pretty incestuous with the practice of law. My friends with JD's who don't practice either sell real estate or work in the oil & gas business. I am happy I have the degree and I'll likely practice full-time down the road but am content to be where I am.
2) There are very few majors that provide job security. Engineering, finance, chemistry, biology all steer graduates to a certain career path but that isn't the case with any of the liberal arts degrees. I have a Poli Sci degree - it's worthless unless you work/intern in that field during school.
3) I am an attorney who doesn't practice much. I work as an oil & gas landman. It's not an easy job to get (anymore) and is pretty incestuous with the practice of law. My friends with JD's who don't practice either sell real estate or work in the oil & gas business. I am happy I have the degree and I'll likely practice full-time down the road but am content to be where I am.
This post was edited on 1/28/14 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:56 pm to kingbob
quote:
I would advise that she pick a useful major very soon: Engineering, Chemistry, ISDS, Construction Management, Accounting, ect
Law isn't exactly the cash cow degree it once was. Law School is expensive, it only leads to a 50% bar passage rate, the job placement rate is abysmal, and then that job will be working 60-70 hours per week making less money than you'd think with zero job security.
If law really is her passion, tell her to go for it, but she needs to cover her but (career wise) with a useful undergrad degree that offers better career placement than law school and looks better on a college application than "general studies", political science, or history.
That's pretty solid advice. She's going to be in Monroe next week for several days, and I really want to give her good counsel on this. If that kid has any "weakness", it's just not having a clue of what she wants to do in life. Absolutely stellar student (4.0 last semester, and about a 3.85 overall), and this is some tough arse classes. She started off thinking she wanted to go into physical therapy school, then nursing, so her great grades are in some decently tough classes. She's never really worked though......that's my fault. As a result, she has no clue as to what she wants to do. She likes the science of medicine, but not the blood/guts/poop/pee.
Whatever she majors in, she'll wind up with a double major in Spanish. So she's got a little more time before she has to fully declare (because she could focus on the Spanish for about one more semester), but she doesn't have much time remaining before she pretty much has to decide on something outside of Spanish.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:56 pm to TigerTreyjpg
We have some that are financial compliance experts
Posted on 1/28/14 at 1:58 pm to TigerTreyjpg
quote:
Whatever she majors in, she'll wind up with a double major in Spanish.
Immigration law is thriving and needs more bilingual attorneys.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 2:01 pm to GaryMyMan
quote:
Whatever she majors in, she'll wind up with a double major in Spanish.
Immigration law is thriving and needs more bilingual attorneys.
yeah, I was pretty fired up that she decided to stick w/the Spanish major + something else. She's in Texas, has no desire to come back to La long term, so whatever she does, having the Spanish degree will help her no matter what she ultimately does, and especially if she stays in Texas.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 2:07 pm to TigerTreyjpg
PT or OT school FTW. Those folks make good money, don't work the hours an attorney does, have great flexibility, and only have a 2 year graduate program vs 3 for law school. Plus they only accept a very select few for PT/OT school vs law school which accepts too many, ie better job security. Those are my .02.
ETA - Virtually every list of this nature I've seen has PT or OT in the top 10 fields to get into, FWIW.
ETA - Virtually every list of this nature I've seen has PT or OT in the top 10 fields to get into, FWIW.
This post was edited on 1/28/14 at 2:09 pm
Posted on 1/28/14 at 2:13 pm to Captain Want
Another vote for PT/OT school. The population in the US is aging and those careers will be in demand in the coming years. Combined with her spanish language skills she would be set, with a nice career.
If she's unsure about going to PT or OT school, tell her to see if any of the local hospitals near her university offer a "shadow" program where she can come in and see what the profession is like.
If she's unsure about going to PT or OT school, tell her to see if any of the local hospitals near her university offer a "shadow" program where she can come in and see what the profession is like.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 2:13 pm to TigerTreyjpg
quote:
She likes the science of medicine, but not the blood/guts/poop/pee.
Well, it's past time to introduce her to the adult world of work by letting her in on the little secret that any job with any job she works, she will have to get her hands "dirty" in someway. She won't always enjoy her job, won't always be liked, and will have to do things she might otherwise not want to do. So she might as well be paid well for it have job security.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 2:15 pm to TigerTreyjpg
I'm a practicing lawyer.
She shouldn't go to law school unless she has a clear and realistic plan for what she would like to do with the degree.
If she does insist on the law school route, she should definitely sign-up for a good LSAT study class and block off a few weeks for intense focus before the exam. I would also recommend taking the exam in February, because I believe it is less competitive than the other dates. Earning a few extra points could mean getting into a much better school or getting some scholarship money.
She shouldn't go to law school unless she has a clear and realistic plan for what she would like to do with the degree.
If she does insist on the law school route, she should definitely sign-up for a good LSAT study class and block off a few weeks for intense focus before the exam. I would also recommend taking the exam in February, because I believe it is less competitive than the other dates. Earning a few extra points could mean getting into a much better school or getting some scholarship money.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 2:39 pm to TigerTreyjpg
quote:
Should I advise her against this unless she has a burning desire to practice law?
Yes.
If she's only been in school for 2 years, she should try something within undergrad. She should find a bit of direction prior to going to law school.
Posted on 1/28/14 at 4:08 pm to TigerTreyjpg
quote:
Absolutely stellar student (4.0 last semester, and about a 3.85 overall), and this is some tough arse classes. She started off thinking she wanted to go into physical therapy school, then nursing, so her great grades are in some decently tough classes. She's never really worked though......that's my fault. As a result, she has no clue as to what she wants to do. She likes the science of medicine, but not the blood/guts/poop/pee.
I've practiced law for 20+ years, with heavy involvement in the medical fields. I'd suggest:
1. Consider staying with nursing or another allied health area (technologist, Physician's assistant, etc.) As a nurse she can become a nurse practitioner, make excellent money, and be involved in many areas of practice that don't involve direct contact with bodily fluids. The use of NPs supervised by doctors is the coming wave in health care, and the NPs have financially rewarding careers without nearly the liability exposure and hassle the doctors have.
2. Don't go to law school unless you love to argue, enjoy confrontation with a$$holes, thrive on stress almost 24/7, and want to make career first and family/children second priority. These things are necessary to get the value back out of the 3 years lost and the 3 years of tuition required for a law degree. If she can testosterone up and do this she'll make it as a lawyer.
3. If she does law, she needs to be in the top 15% to get a good job out of law school in this market. That means a stringent commitment unlike anything she's encountered so far per your post. The grind starts on day 1 and is relentless for at least 2 1/2 years. Burnout is common, as are health and relationship problems. She needs to be sure it is for her.
4. After all the negativity, I can say that it is a personally rewarding career--making a difference for my clients and making good money is satisfying. The respect that is still accorded lawyers is nice. The people who are not a$$holes are very fun, nice and intellectually stimulating. If she gets into a practice area she likes she will find her job personally and intellectually fulfilling.
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