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re: KU library offers buttons to make students preferred gender pronouns clear
Posted on 12/30/16 at 9:35 am to AUbagman
Posted on 12/30/16 at 9:35 am to AUbagman
quote:"gender" in this context isn't biological, but rather a social interpretation of the way we display our biological differences.
Every biologist ever disagrees.
"Male" is what we call a human with a Y chromosome. "Boy" and "Man" are the names we gave to humans who exhibit the characteristics usually exhibited by people who are "male." Hence, when I see a little kid in Park Slope with long wavy blonde hair, I think that's a girl, but it's a fricking male child whose parents won't give him a haircut. Gender is fluid enough that you can mistake a male person for a female person simply by the way he looks.
The song "Adam's Apple" by Aerosmith offers a deeper look into the fluidity of social gender.
This post was edited on 12/30/16 at 9:37 am
1
Posted on 12/30/16 at 9:37 am to ballscaster
Your theory falls apart at the nearest nudist colony.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 9:42 am to Centinel
quote:I'm glad you mentioned that, actually, because it further proves my point. By being civilized enough that we virtually always wear clothes and shame those who don't, we conceal the most obvious descriptors of our sexes. When I walk outside, I don't see penises and vaginas; I see pants and coats. You think that living for millennia with this constant visual neutering doesn't affect the social gender divide?
Your theory falls apart at the nearest nudist colony.
I mean, we hardly even rape anymore, and we have the gall to call ourselves men. You know who really doesn't rape? Chicks.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 10:57 am to ballscaster
quote:
Woman melt
Oh, so now you're queersplaining feminine ideals. You need to go to SJW camp.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 11:02 am to ballscaster
Do you believe even 1/10th of the bullshite that falls out of your man pleaser?
Posted on 12/30/16 at 11:05 am to upgrayedd
quote:You're so offended, yet you're the one calling me SJW. Very womanly.
Oh, so now you're queersplaining feminine ideals. You need to go to SJW camp.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 11:08 am to stout
Can we get a second version of "Bleeding Kansas"?
Posted on 12/30/16 at 11:10 am to stout
quote:
Because gender is, itself, fluid and up to the individual
Nope
Posted on 12/30/16 at 11:14 am to HempHead
quote:The fact that you can mistake a man for a woman and vice versa based on the way a person looks is proof that gender is fluid. Great argument though.
Nope
Posted on 12/30/16 at 11:16 am to ballscaster
quote:
The fact that you can mistake a man for a woman and vice versa based on the way a person looks is proof that gender is fluid. Great argument though.
How does that prove that gender is fluid?
Posted on 12/30/16 at 11:20 am to HempHead
quote:Because you can see a person's superficial appearance and mistake him or her for the opposite gender. If gender identity can be affected by the superficial, then obviously it is malleable. Virtually any social construct is fluid.
How does that prove that gender is fluid?
How do you not get this?
This post was edited on 12/30/16 at 11:24 am
Posted on 12/30/16 at 11:26 am to ballscaster
quote:
Becaise you can see a person's superficial appearance and mistake him or her for the opposite gender.
To me, that seems more like a personal misjudgement than a confirmation of gender fluidity.
quote:
If gender identity can be affected by the superficial, then obviously it is malleable.
Malleable to what extent, though? No one denies that some people are androgynous in appearance, but that doesn't change what's between their legs.
quote:
Virtually any social construct is fluid.
The more social constructs are dependent upon internal judgements and perceptions, and not external pressures and norms, the less cohesive a society is. Constructs exist for a reason and they are not a dirty word.
quote:
How do you not get this?
I am stupid and reactionary.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 11:41 am to HempHead
quote:We hide what's between our legs socially, minimizing their factor when interacting with others. So many millennia later, men are more womanly, and women are more manly. Coincidence? Clearly not.
Malleable to what extent, though? No one denies that some people are androgynous in appearance, but that doesn't change what's between their legs.
quote:Social constructs are nothing more than judgments.
The more social constructs are dependent upon internal judgements and perceptions
Humans with Y chromosomes historically have displayed a unique set of characteristics. We call these people "man" and "boy."
Humans without, another unique set; "woman" and "girl."
As we've become civilized, the two sets of characteristics have experienced more and more overlap. It isn't unusual or shameful for a man to take care of children or for a woman to work, for example.
Really, there's not much difference between a butch chick identifying as a man and your friend Todd putting on cologne to feign the musk he can't muster up so that chicks might dig him. They're both basically chicks.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 11:49 am to ballscaster
quote:
We hide what's between our legs socially, minimizing their factor when interacting with others.
On a purely physical level, of course. We do not expose our genitals to strangers. But I can't even begin to comprehend the idea of hiding the fact that I'm a man. It is abundantly clear in all interactions.
quote:
So many millennia later, men are more womanly, and women are more manly. Coincidence? Clearly not.
I don't follow.
quote:
Social constructs are nothing more than judgments.
Judgements based on experience and what works within a given society. Upending collective norms for individual identification is not a productive thing to do, IMO. For a society to be effective and coherent, there must be a common understanding of a variety of things. If they are all up to the person, and not society, then civil interaction becomes much more difficult.
quote:
It isn't unusual or shameful for a man to take care of children or for a woman to work, for example.
I won't disagree with this.
quote:
Really, there's not much difference between a butch chick identifying as a man and your friend Todd putting on cologne to feign the musk he can't muster up so that chicks might dig him. They're both basically chicks.
Except that one produces eggs and the other sperm. Or are we using gender and sex as completely different things nowadays? I always got stoned and played solitaire during the one sociology class I took.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 12:58 pm to ballscaster
quote:
You're so offended, yet you're the one calling me SJW. Very womanly.
Oh, that's right. Disagreeing with anything you gays say is offensive. You gays can bring the drama
Posted on 12/30/16 at 1:13 pm to HempHead
quote:Covering your dick and shaving your face are both things that hide things about you that make you male. The very idea of civilization requires men to reel back some inherently male things about themselves.
But I can't even begin to comprehend the idea of hiding the fact that I'm a man. It is abundantly clear in all interactions.
quote:Men have to lift weights and wear cologne to look and smell like men. We have to fake it because we aren't it anymore. We don't break a sweat during the day, so we have to find a way to pull it off so that we can give women what they're wired to like.
quote:I don't follow.
quote:
So many millennia later, men are more womanly, and women are more manly. Coincidence? Clearly not.
Women don't marry at 13 anymore, so when they're older, they go to great lengths to appear to be what men are wired to like. They have to fake it because they're not it anymore.
Basically, civilization neuters humans to an extent. Every morsel of neuter throughout history has made it more inevitable that some people would identify socially as a gender that does not correspond with their sex (or biological gender).
quote:"Gender" can be used in any context to compare "male" and "female." In this specific context, we are talking about one's social and societally functional gender (identifying as a ____) and how it relates to his or her biological gender (chromosomes). These two are conflated often in these types of discussions, unfortunately. I think we need some new words.
Or are we using gender and sex as completely different things nowadays?
It's easy to dismiss the idea of having a Y chromosome and calling yourself a girl "mental illness," but it's obvious that as the functions of men and women in society are conflated more and more over time, there will always be the occasional instance of a person's social function in society not aligning with his or her biology.
This post was edited on 12/30/16 at 1:15 pm
Posted on 12/30/16 at 1:14 pm to upgrayedd
quote:You are the most offended, most dramatic, gayest person in this conversation.
Oh, that's right. Disagreeing with anything you gays say is offensive. You gays can bring the drama
Posted on 12/30/16 at 1:18 pm to HempHead
quote:
We do not expose our genitals to strangers.
Speak for yourself.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 1:20 pm to ballscaster
quote:
Men have to lift weights and wear cologne to look and smell like men. We have to fake it because we aren't it anymore.
By what measure? Men have never smelled like cologne (I think cologne is rather feminine but that's neither here not there), and they have rarely been Adonis-like in standard features. If you're talking about people who work out to avoid looking like a useless blob, I guess I follow.
quote:
We don't break a sweat during the day, so we have to find a way to pull it off so that we can give women what they're wired to like.
This is where I'd normally say, "nuh uh", but I don't break a sweat during the day anymore. But I've never associated manual labor with my masculinity...it was just something I liked doing.
quote:
Women don't marry at 13 anymore, so when they're older, they go to great lengths to appear to be what men are wired to like. They have to fake it because they're not it anymore.
The implication I'm getting from this is that men are wired to like 13 year olds, and I'm not to sure about that. Early marriages at the onset of puberty were more about ensuring virginity and thus confirmed offspring of the father, not to mention that Western Europe has been practicing later marriages than the rest of the world since at least the 1600s (look up the Hajnal line).
quote:
It's easy to dismiss the idea of having a Y chromosome and calling yourself a girl "mental illness," but it's obvious that as the functions of men and women in society are conflated more and more over time, there will always be the occasional instance of a person's social function in society not aligning with his or her biology.
I'm not disagreeing that this is what is, I'm contending that it ought not. Having indeterminate functions and roles and leaving it up to personal preference or interpretation makes people crazy.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 1:45 pm to ballscaster
quote:
You are the most offended, most dramatic, gayest person in this conversation.
And according to you SJW's that makes me a goddamn hero
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