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Started By
Message
re: June 12, 2025: Air India 787 Dreamliner crashes in the city of Ahmedabad
Posted on 6/15/25 at 2:34 pm to 777Tiger
Posted on 6/15/25 at 2:34 pm to 777Tiger
Look, I've seen plenty of Pilot Debrief videos where the fatal error was someone flipping the wrong switch and not realizing they had until it was too late. There was that twin prop passenger plane crash a few years ago in some country where the co-pilot inadvertently feathered the props on either one or both engines, killing any lift it could achieve.
There was a lot of theories that the plane took off with the flaps up. He said that was highly unlikely because he's flown those planes, and if you try to take off with an incorrect configuration, the plane warns you very loudly that something is off, so it's unlikely that the pilots would have taken off unaware that the flaps were up. He admitted it was only an educated guess based on early not-great video of the event, but since the landing gear was still down, assuming they still had power, the one that could have caused the plane to descend like it did is if the flaps were all of the sudden pulled up instead of the gear.
ETA
There was a lot of theories that the plane took off with the flaps up. He said that was highly unlikely because he's flown those planes, and if you try to take off with an incorrect configuration, the plane warns you very loudly that something is off, so it's unlikely that the pilots would have taken off unaware that the flaps were up. He admitted it was only an educated guess based on early not-great video of the event, but since the landing gear was still down, assuming they still had power, the one that could have caused the plane to descend like it did is if the flaps were all of the sudden pulled up instead of the gear.
ETA
This post was edited on 6/15/25 at 2:38 pm
0
Posted on 6/15/25 at 2:40 pm to 777Tiger
quote:Does sinister imply sabotage?
another sinister, terrifying possibility comes to mind but I'm going to do some research at work before even mentioning it
Posted on 6/15/25 at 2:43 pm to When in Rome
Wait, he called the theory of a wrong input a dumbass take but he's already gone full conspiracy theory in this thread?
Ok.
Ok.
Posted on 6/15/25 at 3:08 pm to sicboy
He may have meant something else by the word “sinister” 
that’s why I was asking for clarification.
It may be likely that the incorrect inputs theory is unrealistic. I can think of a bunch of possibilities. I wouldn’t write that comment off.
that’s why I was asking for clarification. It may be likely that the incorrect inputs theory is unrealistic. I can think of a bunch of possibilities. I wouldn’t write that comment off.
Posted on 6/15/25 at 3:26 pm to sicboy
This captain Steve guy doesn’t seem as reliable as some of the other experts out there. He’s been off on a few details.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 10:07 am to redstick13
Welp, another Air India 787 experienced issues today
LINK
quote:
Hong Kong — An Air India flight returned to Hong Kong on Monday shortly after takeoff due to a midair "technical issue," the airline said, just four days after another one of the company's flights crashed and killed at least 270 people. The plane that turned around on Monday was a Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, as was the Air India flight that crashed into buildings in the western Indian city of Ahmedabad on Thursday morning.
Air India said in a statement that the New Delhi-bound plane landed back in Hong Kong safely Monday and was undergoing checks "as a matter of abundant precaution."
Airport Authority Hong Kong said in a separate statement that flight AI315 returned to the southern Chinese city's airport around 1 p.m.
LINK
Posted on 6/16/25 at 10:15 am to RollTide1987
Nathan Fielder is on it
Posted on 6/16/25 at 11:06 am to Lsut81
Time to quarantine Air India.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 11:15 am to redstick13
quote:
Time to quarantine Air India.
Not a good look, especially after Air India apparently ordered a thorough inspection of all of their fleet.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 11:58 am to lsu xman
quote:
Not a good look for Boeing
Describe how this isn't a good look for Boeing.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 12:02 pm to RollTide1987
And then there is the theory floating around pilot circles of an electrical failure via arcing of a bus due to water intrusion that caused a dual FADEC failure. FADEC stands for Full Authority Digital Engine Control and is the brain of the engine. I won’t reprint that theory here because it’s already being debunked as having too many inconsistencies but it sure sounds reasonable on the surface and it may implicate both Boeing and AI.
Electrical failure shuts down the FADECs, deploying RAT, and crew can’t get engines relit in time.
We shall know soon enough the true cause especially if it’s a design problem that need to be addressed.
Personally I don’t care for those that are “professionals” jumping to conclusions for web clicks. Captain Steeeve threw the crew and his reputation under the bus speculating pilot error when there are many pics of the wings showing the flaps extended. It’s better to be right than first.
I don’t like the fuel contamination theory either (not a shot at you, 777, many others are convinced) as it would have been discovered by now and kerosene isn’t highly refined anyway.
My money is on loss of thrust but how? I’ll wait for the investigators to do their job.
Electrical failure shuts down the FADECs, deploying RAT, and crew can’t get engines relit in time.
We shall know soon enough the true cause especially if it’s a design problem that need to be addressed.
Personally I don’t care for those that are “professionals” jumping to conclusions for web clicks. Captain Steeeve threw the crew and his reputation under the bus speculating pilot error when there are many pics of the wings showing the flaps extended. It’s better to be right than first.
I don’t like the fuel contamination theory either (not a shot at you, 777, many others are convinced) as it would have been discovered by now and kerosene isn’t highly refined anyway.
My money is on loss of thrust but how? I’ll wait for the investigators to do their job.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 12:03 pm to sotex
quote:
The Indian officials are having the GenX engines on other planes checked so I suspect they are in ‘cover up’ mode
I will take anything they say with a large grain of salt.
I just read the book "Concorde" by Mike Bannister, the former British Air chief pilot. He is adamant that the Frogs covered up the real reason for the AF Concorde crash in Paris, and it took twelve years and some ruined careers for the French courts to back him up. I don't expect the Indians to be any more objective than the French.
You may recall that the Indians had a late penalty cap of something like $300m on the 787 and tried to claim $3b from Boeing just to see what they could get away with. Coincidentally Air India had a $3b loss that year as well.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 12:29 pm to tadman
quote:
will take anything they say with a large grain of salt.
100% agreed.
The quality of people in charge is not equal. These other countries shortcut everything. They don’t value or look at human life the same. Especially the Indians. They have 2b people. They don’t value people like we do. Never have. Never will.
Truth bullets
Posted on 6/16/25 at 2:24 pm to tadman
quote:
I just read the book "Concorde" by Mike Bannister, the former British Air chief pilot. He is adamant that the Frogs covered up the real reason for the AF Concorde crash in Paris, and it took twelve years and some ruined careers for the French courts to back him up.
I remember watching a show about it. The lawyer for Continental tried discussing the missing spacer, fuel tank designs and the overweight takeoff conditions, but the French investigators were not having it.
They were adamant it was solely the American company, Continental that caused the crash.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 3:47 pm to HeyCap
I don’t like Captain Steve. Blancolirio is my guy.
Pretty obvious now that it was an engine issue. The RAT deployment and lack of evidence for flaps being retracted points directly to that.
The FADEC issue posted earlier is interesting. Clearly, they weren’t getting the required thrust.
Pretty obvious now that it was an engine issue. The RAT deployment and lack of evidence for flaps being retracted points directly to that.
The FADEC issue posted earlier is interesting. Clearly, they weren’t getting the required thrust.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 4:07 pm to jcaz
quote:
The RAT deployment
If the failure had happened at 30,000 feet would they have likely landed safely?
Posted on 6/16/25 at 5:02 pm to 777Tiger
quote:
777Tiger
Are you hearing any discussion in your circles about false LRRA readings misleading the A/T logic on TOGA?
2. Autothrottle (A/T):
Uses inputs from multiple sensors, including air data, FMC, mode logic, and in some cases LRRA, to determine appropriate thrust settings.
It is not designed to rely solely on LRRA for climbout thrust. However, in some modes (e.g., TOGA reversion or approach logic), false LRRA readings may cause the autothrottle to engage incorrect thrust modes.
In the Boeing 787, a false LRRA reading can mislead the autothrottle logic, causing it to command idle thrust under the mistaken assumption that the aircraft is landing. The FADEC, receiving this command, executes it within its safety envelope, potentially causing a dangerous loss of climb performance.
Posted on 6/16/25 at 5:53 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
If the failure had happened at 30,000 feet would they have likely landed safely?
Assuming they would get the APU or some ability to keep the flight controls movable.... probably so.
777Tiger or one of the other airline guys would need to confirm but I don't even think they practice dual engine out stuff in the sims.
Posted on 6/17/25 at 4:25 pm to Woodlands Tigah
quote:
They were adamant it was solely the American company, Continental that caused the crash.
This is my take as well. The French courts hit Continental for a lot of money i fines, payable to Air France.
If I were Continental, I'd sue Air France right back in US courts and lobby the US to ban AF from a couple of key airports like Dulles or JFK. Two can play at that game.
Posted on 6/21/25 at 8:43 am to tadman
Saw some updates today on this. India investigation team is now focusing on fuel contamination.
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