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re: Jalopnik: No One In The U.S. Really Wants To Buy Electric Vehicles
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:09 pm to billjamin
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:09 pm to billjamin
We've got a 2019 sedan and a 2021 truck, both of which have under 20k miles, and most of those came from longer road trips.
Truck pulls the boat so that'll stay gas, but a PHEV for around town would mean there's almost no need to buy fuel. The question is, how much driving do I have to do to make up the $20k price difference
Truck pulls the boat so that'll stay gas, but a PHEV for around town would mean there's almost no need to buy fuel. The question is, how much driving do I have to do to make up the $20k price difference
2
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:15 pm to Cosmo
I recently put hands on a BMW i7 at an EBike and Car Expo and it was $119,000. The interior was incredibly nice! 
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:18 pm to FLTech
quote:
A big part of the problem is that they are ugly as frick and there is not a fricking electrical charging station on every corner
And we barely have enough to support the grid as is (not enough in some places). Imagine the problems if suddenly we all had EVs.
The push for EVs without the infrastructure to really support them en masse makes no sense.
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:19 pm to H2O Tiger
quote:
The question is, how much driving do I have to do to make up the $20k price difference
50-60k. Until there's a bad ground somewhere and it takes Bill at the dealership who's been working on gas engines his whole life 4 weeks to find it
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:25 pm to dewster
This is what happens when you try to fix what isnt broken.
They dont currently provide a benefit for the average person.
We’ve been hearing about some pending battery technology breakthroughs. I think ultimately we’re one major breakthrough away from EV’s starting to be adopted at higher rates.
Start talking about a tesla plaid with 1000 mile range on a charge, and reasonable full charge time… then I think you start to have an actual value proposition.
They dont currently provide a benefit for the average person.
We’ve been hearing about some pending battery technology breakthroughs. I think ultimately we’re one major breakthrough away from EV’s starting to be adopted at higher rates.
Start talking about a tesla plaid with 1000 mile range on a charge, and reasonable full charge time… then I think you start to have an actual value proposition.
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:25 pm to dewster
Or maybe people just don't want to buy shitty cars like a Genesis. The Volkswagen ID.4 and ID.6 are good cars and selling pretty well.
This post was edited on 7/12/23 at 12:40 am
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:26 pm to Pikes Peak Tiger
quote:The vast majority of EV charging draws less power than an electric dryer or water heater. It also happens mostly at night when the grid has excess capacity. This is not a real concern.
And we barely have enough to support the grid as is (not enough in some places).
quote:If everyone had an EV it would require about 25-30% more energy than we currently use. Again, this will be mostly at night when the excess capacity can handle it, plus it will take decades to reach that point. I think we can manage a 1% per year production increase. This is not a real concern.
Imagine the problems if suddenly we all had EVs.
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:30 pm to dewster
We've all ended up at a shitty gas station in an area we're not supposed to be in, hurrying up to put $20 to get us somewhere else and then GTF out of there.
With an EV you can hang out and charge for 30 minutes.
With an EV you can hang out and charge for 30 minutes.
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:33 pm to H2O Tiger
quote:
Truck pulls the boat so that'll stay gas, but a PHEV for around town would mean there's almost no need to buy fuel. The question is, how much driving do I have to do to make up the $20k price difference
A lot from a fuel cost perspective. The convenience factor is more personal and it sounds like you would essentially eliminate your gas station trips. What’s that worth to you? That’s a personal calculation. With the Tesla it’s easier with FSD, mad torque, etc.
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:35 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Korkstand
Groundhog Day?
This post was edited on 7/11/23 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:37 pm to lsunatchamp
quote:
You ever run across an intermittent electrical issue on your gas powered car? Not fun, or worse a parasitic draw. Now multiply that fun by a thousand on an EV.
In what way is it multiplied by a thousand? There's basically just one additional electric component - the drivetrain.
But then a lot of the electric components in an ICE are there just to monitor the engine. There are dozens of sensors measuring vibration, exhaust content, pressures, temperatures, positions, and on and on. EVs have plenty of sensors of their own, but with many fewer mechanical parts and fewer fluids and pressures to monitor, my guess is EVs have fewer points of failure. Another guess is many electrical issues (especially intermittent ones) are caused by vibration or heat, both of which are less of an issue for an EV.
I would love to see some data on this.
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:39 pm to billjamin
quote:I'll get it right sooner or later.
Groundhog Day?
Posted on 7/11/23 at 11:54 pm to Korkstand
quote:
I'll get it right sooner or later.
Feels more kobayashi maru at this point.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:10 am to Korkstand
Let's take one common problem. BTW I'm a full-time mechanic so I happen to know about these things.
Parasitic draw. Can happen on any car with electronic components, something is drawing on the battery when it's not supposed to usually will drain the battery to 0 over time due to the constant deep cycling. The batteries on an EV are not meant to be deep cycled and deep cycling them will greatly reduce their life. So yea, 1000 times or more to replace the batteries in a EV.
Parasitic draw. Can happen on any car with electronic components, something is drawing on the battery when it's not supposed to usually will drain the battery to 0 over time due to the constant deep cycling. The batteries on an EV are not meant to be deep cycled and deep cycling them will greatly reduce their life. So yea, 1000 times or more to replace the batteries in a EV.
This post was edited on 7/12/23 at 12:22 am
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:21 am to lsunatchamp
quote:
Let's take one common problem. BTW I'm a full-time mechanic so I happen to know about these things.
quote:EVs have a 12v battery like an ICE, usually lead acid too. So what's the difference?
Parasitic draw. Can happen on any car with electronic components, something is drawing on the battery when it's not supposed to usually will drain the battery to 0 over time due to the constant deep cycling. The batteries on an EV are not meant to be deep cycled and deep cycling them will greatly reduce their life. So yea, 1000 times or more to replace the batteries in a EV.
Oh, one difference is the EV battery pack can keep the 12v battery topped off so deep cycling is less of a problem. And deep cycling isn't really a thing with lithium batteries, the BMS manages that pretty well.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:24 am to dewster
quote:
No One In The U.S. Really Wants To Buy Electric Vehicles
Not surprising. Trying to shove EVs down our throats and make it sound like a good idea is the biggest scam since covid.
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:29 am to Korkstand
quote:
EVs have a 12v battery like an ICE, usually lead acid too. So what's the difference? Oh, one difference is the EV battery pack can keep the 12v battery topped off so deep cycling is less of a problem. And deep cycling isn't really a thing with lithium batteries, the BMS manages that pretty well.
You're missing the point. If there is something wrong in the electrical system and a component is draining the batteries when it is not supposed to, the batteries...ALL of them will be deep cycled. Now, Lithium-Ion batteries are way better at this than lead-acid, but it still greatly reduces their life.
All an electric vehicle is is one big arse alternator with a bunch of batteries, the electrical technology is basically the same, you're just dealing with higher voltages. Except when something goes wrong electrically, you have way more issues than with an ICE.
Personally, I'm all for EV's. Once a lot of people have them I'll be making bank since there won't be many tech that know how to work on them.
edit - BTW just so you are aware. Ev's have just as many sensors as an ICE, if not more. Teslas have over 100 just on the drivetrain, which is pretty similar to an ICE
This post was edited on 7/12/23 at 12:46 am
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:34 am to Pikes Peak Tiger
quote:
The push for EVs without the infrastructure to really support them en masse makes no sense.
It actually makes perfect sense. The deep state will turn off your power then you can’t go anywhere
Posted on 7/12/23 at 12:36 am to dewster
I’m shocked
Price, the lack of infrastructure to support them, and the long charging times definitely didn’t predict this
Price, the lack of infrastructure to support them, and the long charging times definitely didn’t predict this
Posted on 7/12/23 at 1:02 am to hawgfaninc
I love how all of the EV choads always act like the entire world drives home and parks in their cozy garages every night.
There are huge chunks of the world not ready for this. Think of the college apartment complexes around LSU. Is that complex ready to install a shitload of chargers for their residents? I drive through Bywater most days. How the frick would that work where most residents aren’t even able to park in front of their own house? You have some French Quarter residents that have to park a few streets away or 5-6 houses down the street. Will we just become a world of extension cords?
My stance since the beginning: Make and sell EV’s if that’s what the market is dictating. Having the government say they want all ICE vehicles banned by a certain date like EV’s are saving the planet is asinine.
There are huge chunks of the world not ready for this. Think of the college apartment complexes around LSU. Is that complex ready to install a shitload of chargers for their residents? I drive through Bywater most days. How the frick would that work where most residents aren’t even able to park in front of their own house? You have some French Quarter residents that have to park a few streets away or 5-6 houses down the street. Will we just become a world of extension cords?
My stance since the beginning: Make and sell EV’s if that’s what the market is dictating. Having the government say they want all ICE vehicles banned by a certain date like EV’s are saving the planet is asinine.
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