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Started By
Message
Is your car spying on you & sharing data with insurance companies to drive your rates up?
Posted on 3/13/24 at 8:45 pm
Posted on 3/13/24 at 8:45 pm
quote:
Chief Nerd
@TheChiefNerd
“Drivers of cars manufactured by General Motors, Ford, Honda and other popular brands say that their insurance rates went up after the companies sent data about their driving behavior to issuers without their knowledge.
Dahl said that his insurance agent told him the price increase was based on data collected by LexisNexis, which compiled a report tracking each and every time he and his wife drove their Chevy Bolt over a six-month period.
According to Dahl, the 258-page report contained information about the start and end times of his trips, distance driven and other data detailing possible instances of speeding, hard braking and sharp accelerations.
The LexisNexis report indicated that the details it had cobbled together were gleaned from the OnStar Smart Driver, the GM-owned subscription service that records driver information such as total miles driven, hard braking incident and other aspects of driver behavior.”
https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/status/1768056868595765293
https://nypost.com/2024/03/12/business/your-car-is-spying-on-you-and-upping-your-insurance-rates-report/
quote:
Verisk said it has accessed driver data from millions of vehicles including those made by Ford, Honda and Hyundai.
A Ford spokesperson told the Times that the company “does not transmit any connected vehicle data to either partner” — a reference to Verisk and LexisNexis.
Ford will only share driver behavior data with an insurance company if the driver give explicit consent via an in-vehicle touch screen.
Kia, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Honda and Acura enable drivers to turn off data collection relating to on-road behavior in their apps.
quote:
But Honda requires drivers to accept a 2,000-word “terms and conditions” screen on its app that specifies the company will share data with Verisk.
The Post has sought comment from Honda.
“GM’s OnStar Smart Driver service is optional to customers, who give their consent three times before limited data is shared with an insurance carrier through a third party,” a GM spokesperson told The Post.
13
Posted on 3/13/24 at 8:47 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
It’s called telematics, it’s the future of insurance and your rates should go up if you’re a shitty driver.
Posted on 3/13/24 at 8:47 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
They can't screw me any harder than State Farm already does.
They have no power here.
They have no power here.
Posted on 3/13/24 at 8:47 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
Anyone that thinks their data isn’t used constantly anytime they are connected to a larger system is a fool
Posted on 3/13/24 at 8:49 pm to Hoops
The people complaining about this a posting from a smart phone that’s tracking and sharing their data with an untold amount of private and government entities
Posted on 3/13/24 at 8:59 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
Insurance companies collect as much data as legally possible in every way legally possible.
I work in data for an insurance company.
The assumption should be that all companies are doing the same, not just insurance.
I work in data for an insurance company.
The assumption should be that all companies are doing the same, not just insurance.
Posted on 3/13/24 at 9:03 pm to BoogaBear
Indeed. Why does Brookshires need a camera on me when I self-check?
Posted on 3/13/24 at 9:04 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
Found this enabled automatically on Cadillac Escalade, definitely did not get any notification or consent. Strangely enough after years of declining rates ours have doubled since buying that car 2 years ago. No claims tickets or accidents etc.
Also found it was enabled and connected to my onstar profile on an Escalade V I sold months ago. I’m sure my “profile” looks like a 17yr old kid who’s been binge watching fast and furious movies for 6 months.
Can’t wait to get a settlement check in a few years after the class action guys get done with them. Probably be about $100
Also found it was enabled and connected to my onstar profile on an Escalade V I sold months ago. I’m sure my “profile” looks like a 17yr old kid who’s been binge watching fast and furious movies for 6 months.
Can’t wait to get a settlement check in a few years after the class action guys get done with them. Probably be about $100
Posted on 3/13/24 at 9:16 pm to Bobby OG Johnson
This is what we call an asymmetric information market failure
Markets require, at the absolute minimum, symmetric information about the price of the good (in addition to the presence of competition and absence of externalities). Increasingly, consumers are completely unable to calculate their full cost of consumption. When everything you do is tracked, and every tracked data point gives firms better insight on how to secretly extract more profit out of you, it is impossible to argue that symmetric price information exists. And therefore impossible to argue that markets are working efficiently.
This is one place where we seriously need a strong and active DOJ… it’s time for a legit and substantial crackdown on this market distorting behavior. Firms are soaking up all the surplus out of market and leaving consumers with less and less value in their consumption. It’s way past time for a major pushback
Markets require, at the absolute minimum, symmetric information about the price of the good (in addition to the presence of competition and absence of externalities). Increasingly, consumers are completely unable to calculate their full cost of consumption. When everything you do is tracked, and every tracked data point gives firms better insight on how to secretly extract more profit out of you, it is impossible to argue that symmetric price information exists. And therefore impossible to argue that markets are working efficiently.
This is one place where we seriously need a strong and active DOJ… it’s time for a legit and substantial crackdown on this market distorting behavior. Firms are soaking up all the surplus out of market and leaving consumers with less and less value in their consumption. It’s way past time for a major pushback
This post was edited on 3/13/24 at 9:17 pm
Posted on 3/13/24 at 9:18 pm to DCtiger1
Which in no way, shape or form undermines the validity of the complaint
Posted on 3/13/24 at 9:27 pm to tes fou
quote:
definitely did not get any notification or consent
It probably got "clicked through" while your sales rep was demonstrating where the controls on the vehicle were. That's not legal, but it happens.
I turned off telematics almost two years ago, yet I still pay more in insurance than I did back then, and it got explained away as replacement cost inflation. High deductible, etc. After the recent article, I have submitted a request for my Lexis-Nexis info related to my vehicle and driving habits. There shouldn't be any, since I turned it off, but you also routinely pay a penalty for *not* letting your actions, transactions, etc., get tracked. I'll see if a few weeks, I suppose.
The thing that pisses me off the most is that while I drive aggressively, I also don't look at my phone while driving. Head on a swivel, mirror checks in rotation, looking a few cars ahead, etc. Was that taken into account? I didn't think so.
Posted on 3/13/24 at 9:33 pm to DCtiger1
quote:
It’s called telematics, it’s the future of insurance and your rates should go up
All the sudden the 72 Monte Carlo is looking pretty good.
Posted on 3/13/24 at 9:36 pm to LemmyLives
Yeah they bury consent in bullshite and never disclose what it really is even in their terms online.
One vehicle I never registered or insured in my name. It was in an LLC I own, I never personally drove it but it was tied to my onstar profile because all my info was already on file when I bought it.
One vehicle I never registered or insured in my name. It was in an LLC I own, I never personally drove it but it was tied to my onstar profile because all my info was already on file when I bought it.
Posted on 3/13/24 at 9:40 pm to DCtiger1
quote:
It’s called telematics, it’s the future of insurance and your rates should go up if you’re a shitty driver.
frick that. Your insurance should go up for tickets and accidents. Jacking someone's rates up because they went 5 or 10 over on some highway trip is a money grab and an invasion of privacy.
Posted on 3/13/24 at 9:41 pm to HooDooWitch
quote:
It’s called telematics, it’s the future of insurance and your rates should go up
I have owned 9 vehicles in the past 3 years, I found one that I sold 9 months ago still tracking “my driving” because it was tied to my onstar acct when I bought it.
Also had a vehicle in an LLC never registered or insured in my name nor was it driven by me, tied to my acct because I was the original buyer.
How the f*ck does either of those scenarios mean I should pay more for insurance? I had no idea they were tracking the cars from the start because they intentionally hide the info from the buyers.
Posted on 3/13/24 at 9:46 pm to Saint Alfonzo
quote:
Jacking someone's rates up because they went 5 or 10 over on some highway trip is a money grab and an invasion of privacy.
1) if you don’t obey the laws of the road, it’s perfectly fine to have your insurance rates go up as a driver that Carrie’s more risk and likely is more careless
2) you signed off on it
Posted on 3/13/24 at 9:49 pm to Saint Alfonzo
quote:
money grab and an invasion of privacy.
But how did you not see this coming when insurance companies were offering "safe driving" discounts to plug in an OBD-II monitor to track your driving more than five years ago?
I don't know what the exact term is for this kind of coercion, but it's not new. It happened during COVID, *hard,* for sure. I could cut my rates 30% if I just plug in this little thing, if I don't, it's my fault, right?
Posted on 3/13/24 at 10:12 pm to TackySweater
quote:
1) if you don’t obey the laws of the road, it’s perfectly fine to have your insurance rates go up as a driver that Carrie’s more risk and likely is more careless
Nope. Going with the flow of traffic is a thing. If you're driving at the speed limit of 65 while everyone else is doing 20 over that, you're a danger to others on the highway. You're not driving safe, doesn't matter what some spyware shite says.
quote:
2) you signed off on it
Another nope. If I buy a car with telematics, I won't sign off on it, and then it will get disabled.
Posted on 3/13/24 at 10:28 pm to DCtiger1
quote:
your rates should go up if you’re a shitty driver.
But they will never go down based on being a good driver.. And even if you correct the driving over the next six-month period, they won’t go down then either.
Meanwhile.
Insurers rake in record profits in 4th quarter of 2023 according to Wall Street JournalLINK
quote:
Insurance giants’ shares and profits are hitting records, thanks in part to steep rate hikes.
Shares of Travelers, a bellwether for the property and casualty sector, closed at an all-time high earlier this week, up 35% from their lows last fall. The jump came after the company reported a record profit for its fourth quarter, boosted by double-digit rate increases in its business and personal insurance units.
Progressive said Wednesday that its quarterly profit more than doubled from a year earlier. Its stock rose, pushing the company’s market capitalization past $100 billion for the first time.
During the pandemic, for instance, auto insurers raked in outsize profits as people stayed at home and got in fewer car crashes. Only one of the top 10 auto insurers, State Farm, cut rates by more than 10% in the two years through 2021, according to S&P Global Market Intelligence.
Since then, the 10 companies—Allstate, American Family Insurance, Farmers Insurance, Geico, Liberty Mutual, Nationwide, Progressive, State Farm, Travelers and USAA—have each won regulatory approval to boost auto-insurance rates by more than 20%, according to an S&P report this month. In 16 states, the two-year increase topped 30%, including jumps of 45.5% in Texas and 39% in Ohio.
One factor in the run-up in insurance stocks: the recent willingness of regulators to allow large rate increases, even in states traditionally seen as tough on the industry. Last month, Allstate won approval for auto-insurance rate increases of 30% in California, 17% in New Jersey and 15% in New York.
.
This post was edited on 3/13/24 at 11:04 pm
Posted on 3/13/24 at 10:33 pm to go ta hell ole miss
Not to shite on my insurance agency friends, they're just selling what they're given. But there is a reason they can ship top agents, and their families to Europe for a month at a time.
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