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re: Is it impossible to travel to another solar system?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 11:44 am to Mahootney
Posted on 4/8/14 at 11:44 am to Mahootney
quote:
One of the main reasons that an Einstein-Rosen bridge is considered impossible is due to the energy requirement to maintain the worm hole through space time.
duh, we use a zero point energy source.
(I really had no idea, that Einstein discovered that)
quote:
The concept of zero-point energy was developed in Germany by Albert Einstein and Otto Stern in 1913
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Posted on 4/8/14 at 11:46 am to Napoleon
quote:
You love to play victim, for sure. But no attacks. Just pointing out that there are people who believe we will be able to warp the fabric of space and time.
No, you were giving me shite for being certain in my opinion when you were being just as certain with your own opinion.
quote:
I think this time it's more based on your certainty that the tech is impossible based on opinions you have gathered. More than who you are.
And unlike you, I actually posted real facts to back up my opinion. You just keep claiming I'm "wrong" and then go on to say we'll somehow just figure it out some day.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 11:54 am to Napoleon
quote:I've done alot of research into the Einstein-Rosen bridges (or Schwarzschild wormholes). Fuller and Wheeler published a paper in 1962 which highlights the instability of the wormhole.
I wonder if controlled wormholes are possible? Not with current tech, but in the realm of the universe.
The energy requirement to generate and maintain the wormhole is more than can be generated by a star. So, fossil fuels and green energy aren't quite gonna cut it.
There is some hope remaining that quantum effects can generate and support transverse wormholes (ones that can be crossed), which are different from the E-R bridges. In these theories, dark matter (aka anti-matter) is used as the medium to generate and maintain the space-time link.
Raychaudhuri's theorem has not been eliminated as a viable possiblity yet.
Of course, there's alwasy the possibility that our fundamental math is flawed and that we are artificially creating an impossibility that doesn't exist.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 11:58 am to DanTiger
quote:
quote: As soon as you believe that you are smart enough to have it all figured out, you eliminate the possibility of discovery outside of your focused perspective (B/c you eliminate other options with your own prejudices).
-----------------------------------------
I agree 100%. I love these discussions.
Yup. They are fun, insightful, and you might actually learn something.
Everyone wants to believe that what they know is "truth" or "fact".
But in all honesty, I'm pretty sure we're all wrong about some of energy theory.
And we absolutely do not know it all.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:00 pm to DanTiger
quote:
Not true. The universe is a vast place.
Space becomes shortened in the direction one is traveling.
Thus, if one is traveling at approximately c, space becomes compressed infinitely - the start and end points of the vector (from the frame of the traveler) become the same point in space, thereby resulting in zero time elapsed.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:01 pm to Mahootney
quote:
The energy requirement to generate and maintain the wormhole is more than can be generated by a star. So, fossil fuels and green energy aren't quite gonna cut it.
Scratch out nuclear energy as well then. Course I'm sure we'll figure it out, including a way to in essence not only open this worm hole but also create a ship capable of going through what for all intents and purposes is a black hole. So not only will we have to figure out a way to generate more power than that of a star, we'll have to make it small enough to put this energy source onto a ship, somehow shield the crew from this energy, and also make the ship strong enough to survive and encounter with an object that literally rips stars to shreds.
Seems legit.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:09 pm to foshizzle
quote:Hey... I've already stipulated that I've never been to outerspace. I can't prove or disprove either theory.
Well then, what is the big glowing ball that astronauts take pictures of with sunspots on it? They do this pretty routinely. NASA has Sun-observing satellites also.
You are free to believe whatever makes you happy!
But, I KINDLY.... ask you these simple questios to earnestly consider:
Have you ever talked to someone that has been in outerspace?
Or is it something that you choose to believe?
As for the Nasa pictures and satelites.... they may only prove that instruments can detect the electromagentic spectrum being emitted from the sun. It might not prove anything else.
Simply dismissing a theory b/c it doesn't fit with your current world-view is too easy.
--- So maybe it turns out to be a crack-pot theory with no merit. That doesn't mean it isn't fun to talk about, both the potential causes and implications.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:17 pm to DanTiger
If you move the universe around you rather than moving yourself around the universe you could travel at unimaginable speeds to unimaginable places.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:27 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Scratch out nuclear energy as well then. Course I'm sure we'll figure it out, including a way to in essence not only open this worm hole but also create a ship capable of going through what for all intents and purposes is a black hole. So not only will we have to figure out a way to generate more power than that of a star, we'll have to make it small enough to put this energy source onto a ship, somehow shield the crew from this energy, and also make the ship strong enough to survive and encounter with an object that literally rips stars to shreds.
2000 years ago people thought it would be impossible go around the entire world in one trip or even at all.
In 1859 the sustainable continuous operating combustible engine was invented. Within a century of this world changing invention we can now traverse the entire planet in less than a day and We can travel across countries in a matter of hours.
110 years after the invention of the engine we sent men to the moon.
Coupled with the invention and global spread of the internet. As well as the actual sustainable movement toward globalization and unity the future of world technological development and the advancement of the human race is unchartable and limitless. Further, it is propelling at unbelievable speeds and each new technological advancement seems to increase the speed and efficiency of our advancement as a whole.
This post was edited on 4/8/14 at 12:29 pm
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:29 pm to Mahootney
quote:
Have you ever talked to someone that has been in outerspace?
I have spoken with a couple of shuttle astronauts, yes. Does that count?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:31 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:Obviously, I was making a joke about all the green energy is the way of the future crap.
Scratch out nuclear energy as well then.
But condensed fusion is quite powerful; so, I wasn't gonna specifically rule it out.
quote:Anh. That's iffy.... we'll have to broaden our scientific horizon.... or just work on it for a VERY long time.
Course I'm sure we'll figure it out
As a species and scientific community, we just kinda stumble around in the dark until someone finds something. That's not very efficient.
quote:I'm not sure brute force is the answer (much like forcing ships to light speed through brute force probably isn't the answer either... mainly due to the impracticality of time lapse).
So not only will we have to figure out a way to generate more power than that of a star
We'll have to work smarter. Leverage the inherent properties of Anti-matter or exotic energy.
The benefits of success in any other method are far surpassed by the costs.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:32 pm to foshizzle
quote:Sure.
I have spoken with a couple of shuttle astronauts, yes. Does that count?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:32 pm to Mahootney
quote:
I can't prove or disprove either theory.
You are free to believe whatever makes you happy!
"Believe" is an unusual word to use here.
I "believe" that this picture is lit by the sun.
Although not taken "in outer space" - the moon has no atmosphere, and therefore would have the same observational characteristics as the vacuum of space, except the glare caused by its own surface.
This post was edited on 4/8/14 at 12:33 pm
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:40 pm to Ace Midnight
The astronauts may have been sworn to silence.
Some people claim that's a studio in Hollywood.
It may be the reflection off of the surface.
It may be effects from the camera.
ETA: Like I said. I just find it to be a super interesting theory.
I was expecting to get bashed over suggesting that Einstein's theories are flawed (or at least incomplete).
But even the scientific community has a hard time rectifying the differences between relativity and quantum.
Some people claim that's a studio in Hollywood.
It may be the reflection off of the surface.
It may be effects from the camera.
ETA: Like I said. I just find it to be a super interesting theory.
I was expecting to get bashed over suggesting that Einstein's theories are flawed (or at least incomplete).
But even the scientific community has a hard time rectifying the differences between relativity and quantum.
This post was edited on 4/8/14 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:44 pm to Mahootney
quote:
Some people claim that's a studio in Hollywood.
I claim to be the Princess of Canada - but, without any paperwork, that's going to fly as far as the Hollywood moon landing people.
quote:
It may be the reflection off of the surface.
Reflection of what? (It's okay - we all know it is sunlight.)
quote:
It may be effects from the camera.
So, they brought enough light on that tiny little spaceship to illuminate a small satellite and simulate the sun - in 1972.......oooookaaayy.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:50 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Scratch out nuclear energy as well then. Course I'm sure we'll figure it out, including a way to in essence not only open this worm hole but also create a ship capable of going through what for all intents and purposes is a black hole. So not only will we have to figure out a way to generate more power than that of a star, we'll have to make it small enough to put this energy source onto a ship, somehow shield the crew from this energy, and also make the ship strong enough to survive and encounter with an object that literally rips stars to shreds.
Seems legit.
Why do you have so little faith in humanity? Haven't we accomplished pretty much everything we've put our minds to so far? Maybe we'll figure out how to create and travel through wormholes, maybe we won't. Maybe we'll discover some as yet unknown source of energy and harness it, maybe we won't. Maybe we'll figure out indefinite suspended animation so we don't have to solve these other problems, maybe we won't. But if the goal is to travel to and colonize other worlds, especially if the alternative is the end of the species, then I would have to bet we'll figure something out.
As many things about the universe as we have already figured out and put to use, there are still very many stones left unturned. Any discovery could be the key to interstellar travel.
We know a lot about how the universe works, and much of it is very, very weird. Imagine how weird and incomprehensible the things we have yet to learn will be. What really happens inside a black hole? How can we be sure we aren't actually inside another universe's black hole? You said that they rip stars to shreds, but what if that's not really true? After all, if gravity is really just a "bend" in spacetime, why can't the things that enter black holes still exist in that "new universe" with a different set of rules and constants? Many of the constants we know about our universe seem pretty arbitrary, don't they? The speed of light, the strength of the various known forces, etc.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:52 pm to DanTiger
We need FTL drives to jump to other solar systems
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:52 pm to DanTiger
Im going to invent the FTL drive and laugh at you.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 12:53 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
we'll have to make it small enough to put this energy source onto a ship
That wouldn't be necessary per se. Stationary wormhole gates would have to be the 1st generation.
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