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re: Is it impossible to travel to another solar system?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:33 am to Tactical1
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:33 am to Tactical1
quote:
Oh I do, and I think it is amazing, however, we are talking about sending human beings 34.8 million miles away (the closest Mars has ever been to the Earth and this was in 2003) across the most unpredictable frontier not really known to man, land on another planet, leave the surface of that planet, and return safely to Earth.
While I would love to see it, I just think that is much further than 70 years away.
We already have a pretty much autonomous research lab roaming the surface of Mars, so it's pretty safe to say that we have the tech to send people there AND bring them back safely. We would probably have to launch dozens of rockets that would each deliver builder bots, parts of a return ship, fuel, etc, and then assemble the return vehicle on Mars, but all of this I would say is relatively easy to do with today's tech. It would be very, very expensive, but doable within a decade or two if we made it a national goal.
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Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:36 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
But yet none of that can get around the fact that when an object object reaches light speed its mass becomes infinite, and not only does it's mass become infinite the energy required to move it likewise becomes infinite.
As the article I linked points out....
Based on what we know now. But normal FTL travel is not warp speed. you said the article disproved warp speed and it didn't, it dispelled FTL travel.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:38 am to Napoleon
quote:
We have seen so much science fiction turn out to be science fact, that the bending of space time seems plausible.
It would be more than just bending space time that would be needed. We'd also need a way to make sure that whoever we send through that "bend" could survive the journey and also control where they're going.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:38 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
Current human lifetime. Again...our lifespans have nearly doubled in the past 100 years.
Not really. Life expectancy has risen quite a bit, but that is pretty much strictly because diseases that used to kill young people are now survivable. Even people thousands of years ago who were lucky enough to avoid life-threatening illnesses lived to ages that we consider "old" today.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:38 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Otherwise you're going to have to figure out how to travel at least close to the speed of light as possible which then you'd still be looking at a travel time of around 20-25 or so years*, depending on how close to the speed of light you come.
So what abuot warp speed (faster than the speed of light)? What we we tried that? Sorry Cupcake, it's not gonna happen. Warp drive is pure science fiction. As the article states....
quote:
As an object approaches the speed of light, its mass rises precipitously. If an object tries to travel 186,000 miles per second, its mass becomes infinite, and so does the energy required to move it. For this reason, no normal object can travel as fast or faster than the speed of light.
* - I was guessing we could figure out how to travel a little under a quarter the speed of light which realistically is about as fast as any object other than light itself could ever hope to travel. But even here, how the hell could we keep up that speed for two decades solid?
Heres an interesting tidbit..
How Fast is the Speed of Light?
quote:
For simplicity, it is often said that these numbers are 186,000 miles per second.
How fast is this in normal terms? Well, the record for the fastest aircraft is held by the Boeing x-43 scramjet. Scramjets are single-use unmanned aircraft designed to go at hypersonic speeds. The x-43 traveled at 12,144 km/h (7,546 mph), or Mach 9.8, on November 16th, 2004. That is .000405% of the speed of light. And this is a jet that can travel from New York to Los Angeles in 20 minutes. While it takes photons about 8 minutes to travel the distance from the Sun to the Earth – at its furthest, 152 million km (94.4 million miles) – this scramjet traveling at its maximum speed would take about 522 days!
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:38 am to Napoleon
quote:
why they came back from the moon?
1) The Moon is 10,000 times closer to the Earth than Mars is.
2) There is little variation from how far the Moon is from the Earth at any given time. Mars you have to really calculate when the best time for you to go.
3) The Moon's gravity is significantly lower than Mars, making launching from it problematic.
4) The Moon doesn't have an atmosphere, while Mars does, and one more violent than Earth's.
With today's technology, a one-way trip is very feasible. To launch off Mars though, much more difficult than landing there.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:38 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
But yet none of that can get around the fact that when an object object reaches light speed its mass becomes infinite, and not only does it's mass become infinite the energy required to move it likewise becomes infinite.
Again, you are COMPLETELY missing the physics in this. Warp drives aren't accelerating mass to the speed of light and beyond. Warp drives essentially remove you from the universe so the effects of mass, light, gravity, etc. no longer apply.
Again you are not comprehending the subject being discussed here.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:40 am to Korkstand
quote:
Not really. Life expectancy has risen quite a bit, but that is pretty much strictly because diseases that used to kill young people are now survivable. Even people thousands of years ago who were lucky enough to avoid life-threatening illnesses lived to ages that we consider "old" today.
Excellent point.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:41 am to OMLandshark
quote:
4) The Moon doesn't have an atmosphere, while Mars does, and one more violent than Earth's.
That is true but it is also more consistent which, I imagine, makes for easier contingency planning.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:42 am to Napoleon
quote:
Based on what we know now. But normal FTL travel is not warp speed. you said the article disproved warp speed and it didn't, it dispelled FTL travel.
You do realize that bending space time itself is not any more plausible from a physics standpoint than FLT travel, right? In fact, it can be argued that of the two, simply propelling some object at amazing speeds is an easier task than bending space time in a controlled, predictable, and survivable manner.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:42 am to Napoleon
quote:
so because it will take two months no one can survive the journey?
Well, first off, it's at least a 6 month trip one way, so the expedition would have to take place over years in order for the orbits to realign.
Secondly, it's not if they can survive the journey, but can they leave Mars?
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:43 am to notsince98
quote:
Warp drives aren't accelerating mass to the speed of light and beyond. Warp drives essentially remove you from the universe so the effects of mass, light, gravity, etc. no longer apply.
Not everyone is so lucky to study warp theory at Starfleet Academy, brah.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:45 am to notsince98
quote:
Again, you are COMPLETELY missing the physics in this. Warp drives aren't accelerating mass to the speed of light and beyond. Warp drives essentially remove you from the universe so the effects of mass, light, gravity, etc. no longer apply.
Again you are not comprehending the subject being discussed here.
No, i'm comprehending it quite clearly. My point is the notion of warp drive is as impossible, probably even more impossible to be honest, than standard light speed travel. I wish it were possible, I really do. But unless we find out our most basic understandings of physics has been wrong since the beginning, the things you're talking about do are just not possible.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:47 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
No, i'm comprehending it quite clearly. My point is the notion of warp drive is as impossible, probably even more impossible to be honest, than standard light speed travel. I wish it were possible, I really do. But unless we find out our most basic understandings of physics has been wrong since the beginning, the things you're talking about do are just not possible.
And again, you'd be incorrect. I highly suggest you read up Kaku's talks on this topic. It is very much doable.
And we have no basic understanding of physics. We can't even explain the duality of photons.
This post was edited on 4/8/14 at 10:48 am
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:47 am to Darth_Vader
I love how we cannot have a civilized debate without the little downvote game starting. 
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:48 am to dafuqusay
quote:
For simplicity, it is often said that these numbers are 186,000 miles per second.
How fast is this in normal terms? Well, the record for the fastest aircraft is held by the Boeing x-43 scramjet. Scramjets are single-use unmanned aircraft designed to go at hypersonic speeds. The x-43 traveled at 12,144 km/h (7,546 mph), or Mach 9.8, on November 16th, 2004. That is .000405% of the speed of light. And this is a jet that can travel from New York to Los Angeles in 20 minutes. While it takes photons about 8 minutes to travel the distance from the Sun to the Earth – at its furthest, 152 million km (94.4 million miles) – this scramjet traveling at its maximum speed would take about 522 days!
Those ar enot really legitimate comparisons as space is a vacuum and our Apollo rockets travelled in excess of 24,000 MPH. That being said I must admit that 24,000 MPH is still a miniscule fraction of 186,000 Miles per second but I did want to point out that we have gone faster thn the scramjet.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:52 am to OMLandshark
quote:This is wrong by a couple orders of magnitude.
1) The Moon is 10,000 times closer to the Earth than Mars is.
quote:We've done it a couple times already, and Mars is pretty close every couple of years.
2) There is little variation from how far the Moon is from the Earth at any given time. Mars you have to really calculate when the best time for you to go.
quote:Mars' gravity is significantly less than Earth's, and we launch from here all the time. Mars' gravity is more similar to the moon's than to Earth's.
3) The Moon's gravity is significantly lower than Mars, making launching from it problematic.
quote:Mars' atmosphere is very thin, about 1% as thick as Earth's.
4) The Moon doesn't have an atmosphere, while Mars does, and one more violent than Earth's.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:53 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
I love how we cannot have a civilized debate without the little downvote game starting.
It is a real shame. Many angry people on this board.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:54 am to DanTiger
quote:
It is a real shame. Many angry people on this board.
Physics jimmies rustle easily, apparently.
Posted on 4/8/14 at 10:57 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
You do realize that bending space time itself is not any more plausible from a physics standpoint than FLT travel, right?
Do you realize you are bending spacetime right now?
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